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Author Topic:   That whole jesus thing is a load of tosh
taah03
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 30 (33458)
02-28-2003 4:28 PM


Jesus: The Story Of A Woman Who Fooled The World

The woman is not jesus, its mary. She was obviously boning some other bloke and when she got up the duff, she knew she could fool her gullible husband into believing that she saw an angel who told her that she was to have god's child. Joseph, the fool believed her, along with the rest of Bethlehem.
When jesus grew up, he thought well being a carenters a pretty shitty job. I like magic, so he became a olden-day david blaine style street magician. He did the old water into wine trick and the over done 5 loaves and 2 fish (or was it 5 fish and 2 loaves???) to feed a bunch of people. He didnt make the statue of liberty disappear though did he?? eh? now david copperfield - there's a real idol.

------------------
"Did I disappoint you? Did I leave a bad taste in your mouth?" - Bono


Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 18249
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 2 of 30 (33459)
02-28-2003 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by taah03
02-28-2003 4:28 PM


Twaddle
Do you expect a serious response?

--Percy


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Brian
Member (Idle past 3003 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 3 of 30 (33469)
03-01-2003 6:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by taah03
02-28-2003 4:28 PM


'She was obviously boning some other bloke and when she got up the duff, she knew she could fool her gullible husband into believing that she saw an angel who told her that she was to have god's child.'

Of course the name of the father of Jesus is given in the Talmud, Pantera, a Roman centurion.

'He did the old water into wine trick'

Is this literal or symbollic?

'and the over done 5 loaves and 2 fish'

It has been suggested that maybe Jesus and his friends started to share out their 5 loaves and 2 fish, and the wealthy in the crowd felt compelled to share out their food too, so technically the feeding of the 5000 was instigated by sharing out 5 loaves and 2 fish.

However, you hit the nail on the head when you say this Jesus thing is a load of tosh, this also means that the stories about him are a load of tosh, and, although I wouldn't agree with your choice of idol, there are an awful lot of people who deserve more respect than Jesus does.

Brian.

------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!


This message is a reply to:
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David unfamous
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 30 (33472)
03-01-2003 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by taah03
02-28-2003 4:28 PM


There's room for eloquence in your theory, but your're right; if my girlfriend got pregnant and blamed God (if we weren't 'doing the jiggy') I wouldn't advertise her bump as the son of God.

But 2000 years ago, people were 'different' in their reasoning.


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w_fortenberry
Member (Idle past 4151 days)
Posts: 178
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Joined: 04-19-2002


Message 5 of 30 (33503)
03-02-2003 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by taah03
02-28-2003 4:28 PM


Do you have any evidence to support this theory?
This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5375
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 6 of 30 (33504)
03-02-2003 2:27 PM


aside....
In an old "Frank and Ernest" cartoon, one of the two is shaking hands with the preacher after services and saying "I liked the part about loafing and fishing best!"
    
AdminTC
Inactive Junior Member


Message 7 of 30 (33506)
03-02-2003 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by taah03
02-28-2003 4:28 PM


"She was obviously boning some other bloke and when she got up the duff..."

"When jesus grew up, he thought well being a carenters a pretty shitty job."
--The stature of your argumental approach here is rather vitriolic, please refrain from this type of jargon when describing your oppositions. If you wan't to continue in this behavior, please take it to where it belongs, in the www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/Threads.cgi?action=tf&number=15>Free For All Forum.

--AdminTC

[This message has been edited by AdminTC, 03-02-2003]

[This message has been edited by AdminTC, 03-02-2003]


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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3696
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001


Message 8 of 30 (33517)
03-03-2003 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Brian
03-01-2003 6:22 AM


quote:
It has been suggested that maybe Jesus and his friends started to share out their 5 loaves and 2 fish, and the wealthy in the crowd felt compelled to share out their food too, so technically the feeding of the 5000 was instigated by sharing out 5 loaves and 2 fish.

I see this as a real posibility. Socialism in action.

Insert plug for an old topic of mine - "Communism - Godless or otherwise)"

quote:
However, you hit the nail on the head when you say this Jesus thing is a load of tosh, this also means that the stories about him are a load of tosh, and, although I wouldn't agree with your choice of idol, there are an awful lot of people who deserve more respect than Jesus does.

I think that, even if you take an athiestic stance, you still need to consider the posibility that Jesus was a humanitarian leader of his time. Perhaps not unlike a Ghandi.

Moose


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doctrbill
Member (Idle past 808 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 9 of 30 (44858)
07-02-2003 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by taah03
02-28-2003 4:28 PM


I'll take a crack at this.

The story is generally misunderstood; a situation not uncommon among superstitious people, and some of New Testament writers were more superstitious than others.

In Hebrew and in Latin, the word virgin may be understood simply as a young woman. And as to why Joseph married her anyway, well, it seems he expected the kid to accomplish great things. Many men, throughout history have accepted a pregnant bride, even though she was carrying someone else's baby.

"That's the story of, that's the glory of love."


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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 14715
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 10 of 30 (44877)
07-02-2003 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by doctrbill
07-02-2003 2:08 PM


Actually the word in Isaiah ("almah") that is usually translated as "virgin" by Christians means "young woman"

Hebrew has a word "bethulah" which usually does mean "virgin".

Aside from Jewish polemic suggesting that Mary was impregnated by a Roman soldier named Pantherus (or something similar) I think it far more likely that the "Virgin Birth" is a legendary addition to the story.


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doctrbill
Member (Idle past 808 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 11 of 30 (44881)
07-02-2003 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by PaulK
07-02-2003 7:44 PM


quote:
Hebrew has a word "bethulah" which usually does mean "virgin".

Indeed. It is a legal term which is defined in at least three places: "never been laid."

Some biblical authors seem to use it as a term of respect on occasion. This seems appropriate. If one knows nothing of a woman's sexual history, he might just as well assume that she is honorable.

"Virgin Birth" in the sense of sexless reproduction goes way back in pagan religion, probably to a time before people understood the connection between sex and reproduction. That Matthew makes a big deal of it may be because he read Isaiah from the Septuagint and the Greek parthenos (virgin) may be taken either way. John, on the other hand, could read Isaiah in the Hebrew, and he makes no mention at all of the "virgin" birth.

In Latin, (and in English), virgin may be taken either way. In fact, some Latin texts use it in the sense of: "young married woman." Some New Testament writer use parthenos in the sense of "girl" or "daughter."

There is no compelling reason to accept the superstitious opinion of a few disciples, especially when you weigh it against the evidence they cite in support of their claim (Isaiah 7:14). If one reads the verse in context (several chapters worth) it becomes clear that the prediction wasn't about the virgin or the child. It was about the king of Assyria and how soon he would come to kick butt. "by the time the child knows right from wrong" "6 or 5 years" (Jerusalem Bible).

The doctrine is just one more example of shameless charlatans leading ignorant dupes, through partial truth, based on poor scholarship.

db

------------------
B.A. Biology&Religion - Loma Linda University
Anatomy and Physiology - LLU School of Medicine
Embryology - La Sierra University
Biblical languages - Pacific Union College
Bible doctrines - Walla Walla College

[This message has been edited by doctrbill, 07-02-2003]


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nator
Member (Idle past 213 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 12 of 30 (44884)
07-02-2003 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by doctrbill
07-02-2003 2:08 PM


HEY!!!

Dr. Bill!

How the hell are you, stranger?

Allison


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doctrbill
Member (Idle past 808 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 13 of 30 (44888)
07-02-2003 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by nator
07-02-2003 9:41 PM


Hi Schraff,

Long time no see.
I'm great!
Well, good.
OK ... I've been worse.

How about you? Glad to see you are still in here banging heads together.
Feels like homecoming.

db


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PaulK
Member
Posts: 14715
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 14 of 30 (44918)
07-03-2003 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by doctrbill
07-02-2003 9:18 PM


Only the Gospels of Matthew and Luke have the Virgin Birth story. Luke, we may be reasonably sure was not one of the original disciples. The author of Matthew we don't know much about - but it is most likely that he, too, was not a disciple.

Matthew links Jesus' birth with Iasaih 7:14, which as you have correctly pointed out refers to a situation centuries in the past. Luke does not. On the basis of Luke's reference it seems likely that the story was fairly well established in the Christian community at the time of writing (perhaps around 80 AD).


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Peter
Member (Idle past 1967 days)
Posts: 2160
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 15 of 30 (44928)
07-03-2003 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by doctrbill
07-02-2003 2:08 PM


Could the 'virgin birth' story have been a deliberate
attempt to win over Roman support for christianity?

The Roman religion was, after all, filled with demi-gods.


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