What a formatting nightmare LOL
Anyway, so much of the forum is taken up with the scientific evidence and scientific plausibility of the Flood narrative, that I thought I would look at it from another angle, the textual angle.
The first thing to realise about the Flood narrative is that it is actually two different narratives, which are edited and spliced to give one seemingly coherent account.
In
Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Elliot Friedman,
Jonathan Cape, London, 1988. The two different flood narratives have been highlighted in order for the reader to read the different accounts for themselves.
An interesting exercise is to copy and paste the passages that are in different type faces from the text below, paste them into different documents, and then read the two separate stories for yourself.
The J source, or Yawhist, is in regular type. The Priestly source is in capital letters and bold face.
GENESIS 6:
5 And Yahweh saw that the evil of humans was great in the earth, and all the inclination of the thoughts of their heart was only evil all the day.
6 And Yahweh regretted that he had made humans in the earth, and he was grieved to his heart.
7 And Yahweh said, "I shall wipe out the humans which I have created from the face of the earth, from human to beast to creeping thing to bird of the heavens, for I regret that I have made them."
8 But Noah found favor in Yahweh's eyes.
9 THESE ARE THE GENERATIONS OF NOAH: NOAH WAS A RIGHTEOUS MAN, PERFECT IN HIS GENERATIONS. NOAH WALKED WITH GOD.
10 AND NOAH SIRED THREE SONS: SHEM, HAM, AND JAPHETH.
11 AND THE EARTH WAS CORRUPTED BEFORE GOD, AND THE EARTH WAS FILLED WITH VIOLENCE.
12 AND GOD SAW THE EARTH, AND HERE IT WAS CORRUPTED, FOR ALL FLESH HAD CORRUPTED ITS WAY ON THE EARTH
13 AND GOD SAID TO NOAH, "THE END OF ALL FLESH HAS COME BEFORE ME, FOR THE EARTH IS FILLED WITH VIOLENCE BECAUSE OF THEM, AND HERE I AM GOING TO DESTROY THEM WITH THE EARTH.
14 MAKE YOURSELF AN ARK OF GOPHER WOOD, MAKE ROOMS WITH THE ARK, AND PITCH IT OUTSIDE AND INSIDE WITH PITCH.
15 AND THIS IS HOW YOU SHALL MAKE IT: THREE HUNDRED CUBITS THE LENGTH OF THE ARK, FIFTY CUBITS ITS WIDTH, AND THIRTY CUBITS ITS HEIGHT.
16 YOU SHALL MAKE A WINDOW FOR THE ARK, AND YOU SHALL FINISH IT TO A CUBIT FROM THE TOP, AND YOU SHALL MAKE AN ENTRANCE TO THE ARK IN ITS SIDE. YOU SHALL MAKE LOWER, SECOND, AND THIRD STORIES FOR IT.
17 AND HERE I AM BRINGING THE FLOOD, WATER OVER THE EARTH, TO DESTROY ALL FLESH IN WHICH IS THE BREATH OF LIFE FROM UNDER THE HEAVENS. EVERYTHING WHICH IS ON THE LAND WILL DIE.
18 AND I SHALL ESTABLISH MY COVENANT WITH YOU. AND YOU SHALL COME TO THE ARK, YOU AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR WIFE AND YOUR SONS' WIVES WITH YOU.
19 AND OF ALL THE LIVING, OF ALL FLESH, YOU SHALL BRING TWO TO THE ARK TO KEEP ALIVE WITH YOU, THEY SHALL BE MALE AND FEMALE.
20 OF THE BIRDS ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND, AND OF THE BEASTS ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND, AND OF ALL THE CREEPING THINGS OF THE EARTH ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND, TWO OF EACH WILL COME TO YOU TO KEEP ALIVE.
21 AND YOU, TAKE FOR YOURSELF OF ALL FOOD WHICH WILL BE EATEN AND GATHER IT TO YOU, AND IT WILL BE FOR YOU AND FOR THEM FOR FOOD."
22 AND NOAH DID ACCORDING TO ALL THAT GOD COMMANDED HIM--SO HE DID GENESIS 7:
1 And Yahweh said to Noah, "Come, you and all your household, to the ark, for I have seen you as righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of all the clean beasts, take yourself seven pairs, man and his woman; and of the beasts which are not clean, two, man and his woman.
3 Also of the birds of the heavens seven pairs, male and female, to keep alive seed on the face of the earth.
4 For in seven more days I shall rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I shall wipe out all the substance that I have made from upon the face of the earth."
5 And Noah did according to all that Yahweh had commanded him.
6 AND NOAH WAS SIX HUNDRED YEARS OLD, AND THE FLOOD WAS ON THE EARTH. 7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives with him came to the ark from before the waters of the flood.
8 OF THE CLEAN BEASTS AND OF THE BEASTS WHICH WERE NOT CLEAN, AND OF THE BIRDS AND OF ALL THOSE WHICH CREEP UPON THE EARTH,
9 TWO OF EACH CAME TO NOAH TO THE ARK, MALE AND FEMALE, AS GOD HAD COMMANDED NOAH. 10 And seven days later the waters of the flood were on the earth.
11 IN THE SIX HUNDREDTH YEAR OF NOAH'S LIFE, IN THE SECOND MONTH, IN THE SEVENTEENTH DAY OF THE MONTH, ON THIS DAY ALL THE FOUNTAINS OF THE GREAT DEEP WERE BROKEN UP, AND THE WINDOWS OF THE HEAVENS WERE OPENED. 12 And there was rain on the earth, forty days and forty nights.
13 IN THIS VERY DAY, NOAH AND SHEM, HAM, AND JAPHETH, THE SONS OF NOAH, AND NOAH'S WIFE AND HIS SONS' THREE WIVES WITH THEM CAME TO THE ARK,
14 THEY AND ALL THE LIVING THINGS ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND, AND ALL THE BEASTS ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND, AND ALL THE CREEPING THINGS THAT CREEP ON THE EARTH ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND, AND ALL THE BIRDS ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND, AND EVERY WINGED BLED.
15 AND THEY CAME TO NOAH TO THE ARK, TWO OF EACH, OF ALL FLESH IN WHICH IS THE BREATH OF LIFE.
16 AND THOSE WHICH CAME WERE MALE AND FEMALE, SOME OF ALL FLESH CAME, AS GOD HAD COMMANDED HIM. And Yahweh closed it for him.
17 And the flood was on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and the waters multiplied and raised the ark, and it was lifted from the earth.
18 And the waters grew strong and multiplied greatly on the earth, and the ark went on the surface of the waters.
19 And the waters grew very very strong on the earth, and they covered all the high mountains that are under all the heavens. 20 Fifteen cubits above, the waters grew stronger, and they covered the mountains.
21 AND ALL FLESH, THOSE THAT CREEP ON THE EARTH, THE BIRDS, THE BEASTS, AND THE WILD ANIMALS, AND ALL THE SWARMING THINGS THAT SWARM ON THE EARTH, AND ALL THE HUMANS EXPIRED. 22 Everything that had the breathing spirit of life in its nostrils, everything that was on the dry ground, died.
23 And he wiped out all the substance that was on the face of the earth, from human to beast, to creeping thing, and to bird of the heavens, and they were wiped out from the earth, and only Noah and those who were with him in the ark were left.
24 AND THE WATERS GREW STRONG ON THE EARTH A HUNDRED FIFTY DAYS.
GENESIS 8:
1 AND GOD REMEMBERED NOAH AND ALL THE LIVING, AND ALL THE BEASTS THAT WERE WITH HIM IN THE ARK, AND GOD PASSED A WIND OVER THE EARTH, AND THE WATERS WERE DECREASED.
2 AND THE FOUNTAINS OF THE DEEP AND THE WINDOWS OF THE HEAVENS WERE SHUT, and the rain was restrained from the heavens. 3 And the waters receded from the earth continually,
AND THE
WATERS WERE ABATED AT THE END OF A HUNDRED FIFTY DAYS.
4 AND THE ARK RESTED, IN THE SEVENTH MONTH, IN THE SEVENTEENTH DAY OF THE MONTH, ON THE MOUNTAINS OF ARARAT.
5 AND THE WATERS CONTINUED RECEDING UNTIL THE TENTH MONTH; IN THE TENTH MONTH, ON THE FIRST OF THE MONTH, THE TOPS OF THE MOUNTAINS APPEARED. 6 And it was at the end of forty days, and Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made.
7 AND HE SENT OUT A RAVEN, AND IT WENT BACK AND FORTH UNTIL THE WATERS DRIED UP FROM THE EARTH. 8 And he sent out a dove from him to see whether the waters had eased from the face of the earth.
9 And the dove did not find a resting place for its foot, and it returned to him to the ark, for waters were on the face of the earth, and he put out his hand and took it and brought it to him to the ark.
10 And he waited seven more days, and he again sent out a dove from the ark.
11 And the dove came to him at evening time, and here was an olive leaf torn off in its mouth, and Noah knew that the waters had eased from the earth.
12 And he waited seven more days, and he sent out a dove, and it did not return to him ever again.
13 AND IT WAS IN THE SIX HUNDRED AND FIRST YEAR, IN THE FIRST MONTH, ON THE FIRST OF THE MONTH, THE WATERS DRIED
FROM THE EARTH. And Noah turned back the covering of the ark and looked, and here the face of the earth had dried.
14 AND IN THE SECOND MONTH, ON THE TWENTY-SEVENTH DAY OF THE MONTH, THE EARTH DRIED UP. 15 AND GOD SPOKE To NOAH, SAYING,
16 "GO OUT FROM THE ARK, YOU AND YOUR WIFE AND YOUR SONS' WIVES WITH YOU.
17 ALL THE LIVING THINGS THAT ARE WITH YOU, OF ALL FLESH, OF THE BIRDS, AND OF THE BEASTS, AND OF ALL THE CREEPING THINGS THAT CREEP ON THE EARTH, THAT GO OUT WITH YOU,SHALL SWARM IN THE EARTH AND BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY IN THE EARTH."
18 AND NOAH AND HIS SONS AND HIS WIFE AND HIS SONS' WIVES WENT OUT.
19 ALL THE LIVING THINGS, ALL THE CREEPING THINGS AND ALL THE BIRDS, ALL THAT CREEP ON THE EARTH, BY THEIR FAMILIES, THEY WENT OUT OF THE ARK. 20 And Noah built an altar to Yahweh, and he took some of each of the clean beasts and of each of the clean birds, and he offered sacrifices on the altar.
21 And Yahweh smelled the pleasant smell, and Yahweh said to his heart, "I shall not again curse the ground on man's account, for the inclination of the human heart is evil from their youth, and I shall not again strike all the living as I have done.
22 All the rest of the days of the earth, seed and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease."
Some immediate problems appear for me.
Firstly, the Flood narrative, as we have it, is the work of more than one author, this brings into question Mosaic authorsip of the Torah. (as we have it)
Secondly, There are some differences between the two texts:
1. The Priestly source has only one pair of animals saved, the J has seven pairs of clean animals and one pair of unclean.
2. P has the flood lasting for a year, J has it lasting for forty days and nights.
3. P has Noah sending out a reaven, J has Noah sending out a dove.
4. P is concerned with dates, ages and measurements, J has no such concerns.
However, my main problem with the text is that it has 'God' displaying some ungodlike qualities.
For example, how can an omniscient God ever regret doing something?
Also, it gives God some human characteristics. God is grieved to his heart and he also smells Noah's sacrifices.
This is a very confusing type of God that is worshipped by Bible believers. Is this a God who has suspended his omniscience for a period of time, is this also a God that gets pleasure from the killing and sacrifice of animals, and surely if this God had any sense at all, he wouldnt need a flood in order to wipe everything out, he could do it with a single thought.
Finally, this 'god' makes such a mess of creating his playthings that he decides that he has to start again, but he keeps 8 of his faulty creations alive complete with original sin! What does this 'god' expect to happen, he still has a handful of faulty creations around the place reproducing more faulty creations, does he think that things are going to be different?
The whole incident smacks of human invention, complete with the limited intelligence of the humans that composed it.
So the flood believers do not only have to contend with science making a mockery of a literal interpretation of the Flood, they also have to decide which flood narrative is accurate and then deal with the most incompetent god that has ever been invented.
I am sure that there will be more problems with the texts, if anyone would like to post their observatons I would appreciate it.
Best Wishes.
Brian.
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Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!
(just jokin)
™ Version 4.2
