Jonah and the whale - It happened!

Dear NosyNed:Thank you for agreeing with me that the string has gone off topic and should anyone want to discuss other topics they can open another string.Sincerely,Ken

You're welcome.But you're unwilling or unable to contribute to the recent flood threads? The fossil sorting one is pretty straight forward.[This message has been edited by NosyNed, 02-11-2004]

To readers:I was at a eating establishment today and overhead a game of trivail pursit being played. Now according to the game "Trivial pursuit" a huge percentage of animals have gone extinct. Why is this important to the JOnah debate? Here is something I just read at another site:"Nothing in the biblical account demands that the creature be a whale. It could be an extinct marine reptile or any one of the thousands of species of marine life that has gone extinct in the last few thousand years. It may have even been a fish..You may think to yourself: "but fish don't get that big". If you believe that, you should visit more museums. - I recall staring in amazement at the Ann Arbor Museum of Natural History as I stood next to a fossil skull of a fish named dunkleosteus.Dunkleosteus This skull was about three and a half feet tall. Its body length would be incredible. This huge fish would be a fright to anyone who saw it. It's mouth hung open and it was more than big enough to swallow me....I am not saying that this was for sure the fish that swallowed Jonah. I am merely saying that fish like this did exist."taken from: Jonah whale fish bible book of Jonah Scientifically Plausible? can a man fit in a whales stomach giant fish great fishSincerely,Ken[This message has been edited by kendemyer, 02-11-2004][This message has been edited by kendemyer, 02-11-2004]

To Nosyned:I studied the topic of geology at my university. I also read some geology material subsequent to my graduation from my university.In addition, I did well in science in school at physics, biology, chemistry, astronomy and other science topics. Those topics have always interested me. Geology is less interesting to me. I have no interest in joining the flood geology string.[This message has been edited by kendemyer, 02-12-2004][This message has been edited by kendemyer, 02-12-2004]

If I'm reading the topic correctly, the proposition being debated is: "Jonah and the whale - It happened!" So far you've managed to demonstrate only that, according to some, it 'could' have happened, particularly given that 'whale' didn't necessarily mean whale and 'belly' didn't necessarily mean belly.The obvious question is: So what? The 'possible' forms a near unbounded class of mundane and fantastic. It includes Unicorns, Alien abduction, and the ever-lovable Yeti.So let us accept, for the purpose of debate, that the Jonah story is every bit as theoretically possible as is the proposition that Unicorn poop clears warts. Does this, in any way, serve as affirmative evidence for the proposition: "Jonah and the whale - It happened!"? Not in the least. And yet, somewhat pathetically, it's all you have. Please let us know when you have something of worth.

Dear Readers:I thought the most interesting part of the jonah essay written by the author I cited was this part of the essay:"Pinney (1964) quoted the Director of a Museum of Natural history:"Many people asked me if the Bible story of Jonah is true. Could a man be swallowed by a whale? So I pushed my body partly down the throat of a dead sixty foot sperm whale. I could just squeeze through. A fat man couldn’t have made it." "I thought this was the most interesting because most people are under the impression that a sperm whales gullet is impossible to fit a man through and I believe this is a modern myth with no basis in fact.I thought the rest of the article raised some interesting questions. I also do not rule out the supernatural in this account since the account clearly has two cases of God intervening in the Jonah account. I also do not rule out some naturalistic explanations as well. So far nobody has attempted to discuss the questions I raised regarding the naturalistic explantions. I am not disapppointed about this but it is regrettable.When I posted this information I did not expect professed atheists to do cartwheels and become Christians. I did expect some Christians to find some details interesting and so far I have had Christians favorably respond to the essay.I chose the title, "Jonah and the whale. It happened! Believe it" as a title for Christians to identify the essay as a Pro-Bible essay via the search engines. It worked.To the atheists I say what Ripley said to his readers. As you may recall the publication that Ripley published was called: Ripley's Believe or not. If you choose to not believe the Jonah account that is regrettable but that is your choice. I did not expect this piece to cause a revival on EVC Forum, however among the professed atheists.Lastly, I would continue to ask for the post to remain on topic.

quote:

---

"Many people asked me if the Bible story of Jonah is true. Could a man be swallowed by a whale? So I pushed my body partly down the throat of a dead sixty foot sperm whale. I could just squeeze through. A fat man couldn’t have made it."

---

I agree. That certainly is interesting.

---

"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

You're not worried that those Christians will look at the other threads?!You say "it happened!". But, you have no proof. There is nothing to debate about speculation.

Dear Readers:I did some additional research. The beginning of the string has been revised.Sincerely,Ken[This message has been edited by kendemyer, 02-16-2004]

To Everyone and Thingschange:I believe in a very recent posting I explained why I gave the piece the title I did (see post 66 regarding the title: "Jonah and the whale: It happened." Professed atheist have no absolute proof it did not happen. Christians who believe in the accuracy of the Bible have no absolute proof it did happen. I did offer some inductive proof that it did happen and raised some questions in the scientific realm that nobody seems to want to discuss. It seems until they discuss the questions I raised they have not earned the right to say that the Jonah account is improbable.I have nothing further to say I believe until further research is done. I plan on doing further research.[This message has been edited by kendemyer, 02-12-2004]

Rubbish. You've offered nothing but sophistry. What, specifically, are you seeking to pawn off as "inductive proof"?

To Everyone:I revamped my essay after doing more research. Above you will see the additional research I did.To ConsequentAtheist:Your complaint would be far more convincing if half of my new links were working when I posted. Due to technical difficulties they were not. Now 100% are working. Not even a complaint of broken links![This message has been edited by kendemyer, 02-12-2004]

No, you haven't offered any sort of "inductive proof" that it happened.

I made no complaint. I made an observation: one obvious to anyone following this thread, and one which you obviously hope to evade. Again, what, specifically, are you seeking to pawn off as "inductive proof"?

When taking any story into account as absolute 100 percent literal, or fictional, the point is this: What is the purpose of the story? Has anyone ever read a great work of fiction that was so moving that in a sense it was real? Ask yourself what it means to you for a story to be real. Take Adam and Eve for example. Were there literally two humans that started the species that we are? If there is a defineable point in evolution where the species became the same as we are today, then by definition, Adam was the start of our rational mind. Whether or not the actual event happened, the point that I am making is that the consequences of the event DID happen. Namely, our species was introduced to God, was given the choice to choose, and chose wrongly.
This is the literal belief behind that story. So what about Jonah?
What is the message behind the story? More to the point, what is the source of the wisdom of the message behind the story? In other words, truth(absolute truth) from a divine source(Monotheistic God) is given to a man, Jonah. This man, wh it appears was a believer in God, chose to run away from the unction of the Spirit. On the one hand, many laugh at a story of a God who causes havoc. What is really going on? In life, we have storms. Does God cause them? Sure. He causes us to breathe this very moment. He allowed us to choose whatever it is that we choose to say, think or do every day, yet He by sending His Son has also allowed us to choose His way. Literally? Perhaps so, perhaps not. The point is that each man sought a source of wisdom to solve the problem at hand. Jonah, a believer, knew his source. He fell asleep in a storm. But the sailors were puzzled. Why was this bad vibe happening? In other words, they tripped out because he was calm during a storm. They wanted to know why Jonah felt such calm when they were trippin. What was his source? In other words, it scared the sailors that Jonah admitted that he ignored his source of wisdom from time to time.
I could go on, but my point is that a literal meaning does not have to equal a literal fish or a literal 6000 years. The Bible is literal in unction. The Spirit of God speaks through the words.