The Whole Jesus Thing

Actually, the sins were placed on a Goat and it was let loose to wander into the wilderness. That is the source of the phrase scapegoat (from escape goat). So it is often better to be a scapegoat than sacrificial lamb.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Let me ask you the same question though in slightly different terms. If that happemed would you thank the person that mowed your yard?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I didn't answer it because that question has nothing to do with the Jesus question.Christ died for all men. It was a gift freely given and you are not asked to pay $50.00. In fact, you are not even asked to say thanks.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

No, not really.If you check my postings here you'll find that I don't subscribe to such posturing. It's pretty silly IMHO.Christ died and rose again as an indication, an affirmation, that his death was full and sufficient sacrifice and oblation for the sins of the world. It was a passion, played out in the idiom of the day. It was a gift, freely given for all mankind, believer and non-believer.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Was it, like Jesus' death, a gift freely given?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Actually, not that uncommon. There are also species that change sex based on conditions, ones that change sex based on age, ones where the sex is determined based on external conditions at a given life stage. In fact, almost every possible combination and permutation is known.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Can I get a Big Amen Brother?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Exactly. Very, very true. That is the essence of a Gift Freely Given.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Don't blame you. That sure wouldn't be all that neat. Fortunately, the gift was not death but rather forgivness of sin and life everlasting.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

and I'm somewhat saddened that we still have not really dealt with "The whole Jesus Thing". I had great hopes for this thread and just sorry they did not pan out. It could have been a fascinating discussion.Maybe what we need are some facilitated discussions?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

IMHO there are several layers to the "Jesus Thing".First, GOD can forgive sin. Can we agree on that much?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

So we both agree that GOD can forgive sins.I believe that your information on the acts of atonement is a little premature. Can we put those off for a moment if I promise that we will return to that subject?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Okay. Well, I don't think a human sacrifice is or was needed. It can get complicated, can't it?Remember, all I can do here is try to explain how I see the issue so it is very likely that you and others may well disagree. That's fine.As I have said before on here, loving GOD is a matter of actions rather than profession or belief. It goes back to the second of the great commandments, "Love others as you love yourself". When you do not do that, when you do not act in that way, it is a sin.Under that premise, all sins are at least two fold, they are an act against another and an act against GOD.The "Jesus Thing" IMHO, is more than just his death. It is his life, his teachings, his death and resurection. The fact that he died is not the salvation or the sacrifice. The fact that he lived, that GOD became man, walked among us, taught us, was man with all of the limitations that entails, was the sacrifice.Jesus death, his crucifixion, was the direct result of challenging the system. Given human nature, it was an enevitable result. Jesus said, "Folk, things really aren't as complicated at the system wants you to think. You don't need to support the layers of priests. You don't need all of the myriad laws. You can come talk to Dad anytime, any place, for any reason. If you have problems, just ask."It was as though someone had shown up and simply torn up the existing tax code and shown there was no need for all the overhead. He had to go, had to be silenced. And the way that was done at the time was crucifixion. It was not an unusual punishment, in fact on the day he was crucified, there were at least two others.So as a summary.IMHO, Jesus Life is the sign of GOD's forgiveness. It is that GOD took on human form, walked among us, lived with us, taught us that is the sacrifice. The issue cannot be complete without including his death and resurection. And that is the message, the symbol, the meaning of the Jesus Thing.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

That's fine. I have never asked you or others to accept or believe in the Bible. Let's look at that list as I see it.Going around preaching was his job. So I don't see much of a problem there. The temper tantrum at the fig tree is most likely a parable. Over turning the tables was, as I mentioned earlier, a direct attack on the system itself and what lead to his trial and punishment. And that is were we differ. I do see much that was unique and wonderful about his life and teachings. Even if, as I have said before, the story of his life and death were only tales told around a campfire, I still see much good.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion