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Author Topic:   The Whole Jesus Thing
EasyPriest
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 286 (154997)
11-01-2004 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Yaro
12-06-2003 2:14 AM


Christian theology says that God created a universe with certain rules (he did this because he is an orderly being - it's integral to his God-ness). Because God is 100% (infinite) good, he cannot be in the presence of evil without obliterating it; again, this is an integral aspect of Godness. He gave people free will; they excercised that will and sinned.
God then set up a system of sacrifice whereby people could defer that wrath - ostensibly. In reality, the system was there mostly to set up the appearance of Jesus.
Jesus is God's loophole. He is both God and a perfect person; as such he is the only truly suitable sacrifice (in the above system), and only by his sacrifice can God's (necessary and just) wrath be averted.
God created the universe and gave us free will; we messed it up and he graciusly gives us a chance fix it.
To respond point-by-point: Jesus didn't "die" insofar as he ceased to exist; he only died in a sense; enough to fill the requirement for sacrifice, which was necessitated by God's inherant orderliness and goodness (which necessitates destruction of evil/sin).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Yaro, posted 12-06-2003 2:14 AM Yaro has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Legend, posted 11-02-2004 6:27 AM EasyPriest has replied
 Message 53 by ramoss, posted 11-02-2004 8:02 AM EasyPriest has not replied

  
EasyPriest
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 286 (155350)
11-03-2004 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Legend
11-02-2004 6:27 AM


Legend,
It makes sense in the context of the whole thing. Let me try to sum it all up...God made a universe with a set of rules - he had to create it in that way because of his nature as God. Humans broke the rules, so God created a loophole (Jesus) which allowed him to prevent us from being punished.
The focus is on the fact that WE do not have to go to hell under the system. There is no appeasement - it's not like God is demanding blood or anything; his very nature demands that sin be destroyed.
How does this even make sense?
1)God must destroy sin.
2)God cannot be destroyed.
.: By becoming taking the punishment for our rule-breaking, God can prevent ANYONE from dieing.
How is it a cop-out if there's no suffering? This assumes that God is bloodthirsty, which can't be shown. But in this case there would have been suffering; you've forgotten that Jesus was fully human and simultaneously fully God. The human bit suffered.
If I implied that sin would instantly dissapear it was a mistake on my part.
quote:
So, the way I see it, the only point of the whole Jesus saga is that we don't get instantly killed by God when we sin (like in the O.T), but rather be denied a chance in the afterlife. It's only the method of punishment that's changed, nothing else.
You've lost me here. How would this deny us a chance in the afterlife? How did this change the method of punishment? However you're right on the spot about preventing "sudden death" (though God didn't "instantly kill" everyone in the OT for sinning); the doctrine called 'general grace' says that Jesus's death was enough to absorb (even retroactively) God's necessary destruction of sin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Legend, posted 11-02-2004 6:27 AM Legend has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by CK, posted 11-03-2004 4:48 AM EasyPriest has not replied
 Message 58 by CK, posted 11-03-2004 4:49 AM EasyPriest has not replied
 Message 59 by Legend, posted 11-03-2004 6:36 AM EasyPriest has not replied

  
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