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Author | Topic: The Whole Jesus Thing | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Angel Inactive Member |
Yaro, "How is Jesus dieing for us the 'ultimate gift'?"
Reply For a Christian it is simply so that we could be forgiven of our sins. Yaro,"Was not Jesus God?"Reply No, He isn't God. Yaro,"So God killed himself so we could go to heven?"Reply No, He didn't. Jesus died so that we could inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Yaro,"Couldn't god just make everyone 'saved', why does he need to kill himself for it?"Reply According to the Old Law, no He couldn't. There had to be a sacrifice (Jesus), so that His words would not be hipocritical. God isn't a liar, so thus to keep with the Old Law, (it is written so it shall be done) it had to be done. Angel
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Angel Inactive Member |
* Because God said so, that is the only honest answer that I can give. I personally don't question Him, but I can see your point that He could have done away with it all together.
* Yes I am saying, not suggesting, that they are different. I tried to limit my views of this on this post, because it wasn't the subject. I am not worried about 'traditional' church teachings, simply because they can add to or take away what they want. Again a different topic. But that should at least give you an idea of where I stand with this. * Here are some scriptures in the OT that pertain to Jesus' coming.* Genesis 3:14-15 * Genesis 12:1-3 * Exodus 12:1-13 * Deuteronomy 18:14-19 * 2 Samuel 7:11-13 * Joel 2:28-32 Sacrifice may be looked upon now differently than it was then. If we were living at that particular time, it wouldn't even be considered a ligitimate question. I can't see myself putting up my own son for the sake of someone else. But in turn, I could see myself giving up my life to save my loved ones. I am unaware of any law that says human sacrifice makes God happy. Again I can't answer your last question with anything but, because God said so. I can't answer, nor can anyone else honestly, questions that pertain to the way He thinks.
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Angel Inactive Member |
* Because God said so, that is the only honest answer that I can give. I personally don't question Him, but I can see your point that He could have done away with it all together.
* Yes I am saying, not suggesting, that they are different. I tried to limit my views of this on this post, because it wasn't the subject. I am not worried about 'traditional' church teachings, simply because they can add to or take away what they want. Again a different topic. But that should at least give you an idea of where I stand with this. * Here are some scriptures in the OT that pertain to Jesus' coming.* Genesis 3:14-15 * Genesis 12:1-3 * Exodus 12:1-13 * Deuteronomy 18:14-19 * 2 Samuel 7:11-13 * Joel 2:28-32 Sacrifice may be looked upon now differently than it was then. If we were living at that particular time, it wouldn't even be considered a ligitimate question. I can't see myself putting up my own son for the sake of someone else. But in turn, I could see myself giving up my life to save my loved ones. I am unaware of any law that says human sacrifice makes God happy. Again I can't answer your last question with anything but, because God said so. I can't answer, nor can anyone else honestly, questions that pertain to the way He thinks. Angel
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Angel Inactive Member |
Hi Purpledawn,
quote:It is written throughout the OT, here are a few examples: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: Angel
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Angel Inactive Member |
hi dpardo,
I want to answer these questions, so I started a new post, please go to it and I will be happy to share, I didn't want to go off topic. So I will respond there Angel
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Angel Inactive Member |
No, you are right, it doesn't. It doesn't say those words exactly. But it does say it. It explains, in detail, what is to happen. I was just trying to save time, and probably should have claryfied that. It does tell of a human sacrifice (Jesus), and it tells it in the Book of Law (Psalms, Proverbs, etc.), so to simply say, that it didn't say that there was no mention of a human sacrifice, would be wrong. By it saying what was to be, and by being written in the Book of Law, makes it so, though it doesn't 'come right out and say it'.
Angel
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Angel Inactive Member |
If you honestly can't see where it fortells of it, then that is fine with me. I see it, and so do millions of others. I guess when/if the time is right, you will be able to see it too.
God Bless Angel
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Angel Inactive Member |
quote:I never said that there wasn't? While, unlike others, I do not condone these other views, I do not condemn them either. quote:Yes, I agree that isn't an answer, again, I never said that it was. I had already answered the question, and stated scripture, now if the person reading it doesn't understand it, and I have explained it the best that I could, isn't it ok that I see things differently, and to find your answer elsewhere, (from someone else)? It is not my intent to confuse anyone, if asked a legitimate question, I will answer as best I can, that doesn't mean that my best is always good enough, so I left it at that. quote:It was explained, if you look you will see an explanation. I could care less if you take me serious, I assure you, I will lose no sleep. It seems that a few people that I have discussed with, want me to answer in a way that suits them, and that will never happen. One thing, that you must know about me, is that it is ok for me not to agree with you, and it is ok for you not to agree with me. Angel
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Angel Inactive Member |
quote:*sigh* Yes, I can point it out, from my viewpoint, simply by telling you to read the scripture that I posted. That doesn't mean that you will see it, though I wish that you could. That's the only explanation that I can give except my personal beliefs, which is never accepted as an answer in discussions such as this. Angel
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Angel Inactive Member |
quote:I beg to differ, the Old Law consists of the entire Old Testament. I say this because there are laws (commandments) in each book. Jesus simply fulfilled the Old Law, therefore making a New Law. quote:I see, so would you prefer that I make up a reason? I answered her honestly, from my viewpoint, are you saying that is wrong? quote:In a sense, yes. You have understanding of the Bible, when you have the Holy Ghost within you. This is clearly explained in the Bible. I was once just as alot of you are, I would even go as far as saying, that I was moreso against the Bible, than anyone I have ever encountered. Nothing you could possible say could offend me, because nothing you could possible say, isn't something that hasn't already been spoken, from my own mouth. quote:Well I beg to differ again, simply because if it didn't happen that would make Him a false prophet, which I strongly disagree with. Now if your question was as the original question, which was why would God choose to do it this way, you could have any answer that you want, but the only answer to be given to that question, that would be an honest answer, is simply I don't know. Just as you can't tell me why I do what I do, because you can't see my thoughts. Therefore if it isn't explained, you can only make assumptions, which does not make them the truth. quote:Well, sure they can! Have you ever read the Bible with an open mind, or just to try and prove it wrong. I won't go into this futher, I only wanted to say that is an incorrect assumption, from my viewpoint, and any Christian can plainly see that it was necessary. quote:Good point, but aren't the two the same? I make a sacrifice of myself for my children (figuratively speaking), God made a sacrifice for His children? quote:Dawn, I say this with no sarcastic intent. The problem that I have with this statement is this. When a Christian responds with an answer/comment that includes the word 'may', everyone jumps as fast as they can to say, may? Show me facts....etc.etc.etc. However, when a non-believer says it, it is simply, ok. I accept your 'may' as your belief, in return you should except my 'may' as mine. Angel
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Angel Inactive Member |
Ramoss,
You said this:
quote:And I say, thank you. Jesus in fact wasn't God Himself, and I agree with this statement. Angel
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Angel Inactive Member |
Ramoss,
You said this:
quote:And I say, thank you. Jesus in fact wasn't God Himself, and I agree with this statement. Angel
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Angel Inactive Member |
quote:It is a fact that humans in general would not be acceptable as sacrifices because their sin made them imperfect, and only perfect sacrifices were acceptable. Since Jesus was free of sin, Jesus is the only human who could ever be accepted as a sacrifice. Angel
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Angel Inactive Member |
quote:It is fine with me that you believe this way, actually most people do, so you are of the majority. However I did clarify for you what was meant when I said it. quote:That's great! But unfortunatly, it doesn't mean that you are always right, it doesn't mean that you are always wrong either. quote:So, like me, you learn for yourself. I have no objections to this, and wish more people would do the same. quote:That is an interesting statement, and would love for you to clarify it. It sure would clear up alot of everyones answers, if you have some proof of your beliefs! You see, anyone who studies, discusses, thinks about, etc. ANYTHING to do with God, or the Bible in general, are making assumptions (aka. belief). I would love to hear the physical proof that you have that makes it a theory and not a belief!?!? quote:What exactly haven't I answered? The one where I said 'if you can't see it...'? I explained then, as I will again, that's the only answer that I can give. Hmmm...so let me get this straight, since I can't explain it in a way that makes sense to you, and forgo all of the back and forthness (attempted anyway, it's easy to see that it didn't turn out that way) I haven't explained myself? I tried, so what else, you want me to make up my own 'theory'? I think not, because to have a theory you need proof, physical proof to prove it, can you please, again share this proof? quote:Yes, thanks! ( even though you didn't mean it ) Angel
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Angel Inactive Member |
quote:And I would have to say that technically you are absolutely correct. I was speaking generally, and explained what it meant to me though. Angel
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