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Author Topic:   51 scientific facts that disprove the Bible
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 76 of 167 (498240)
02-09-2009 5:14 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by anglagard
02-09-2009 3:36 AM


Re: Ouch!
i dont have a problem with them saying it was around 6,000 years ago
what is important is that they are saying all languages can be traced back to an original language.

This message is a reply to:
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Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 77 of 167 (498242)
02-09-2009 5:18 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by anglagard
02-09-2009 4:07 AM


i have no issue with that in the slightest
there are different schools of thought in all diciplines...the truth is likely to be somewhere in the middle

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 78 of 167 (498243)
02-09-2009 5:26 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Peg
02-09-2009 5:18 AM


Middle-er-muddle
there are different schools of thought in all disciplines...the truth is likely to be somewhere in the middle
Even in the multitude of Bibles?

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 Message 77 by Peg, posted 02-09-2009 5:18 AM Peg has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 79 of 167 (498250)
02-09-2009 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Peg
02-09-2009 5:12 AM


quote:
i gave you a quote directly out of the book i also quoted. i gave you a quote directly out of the book i also quoted.
You gave a quote that did not support your claim. Your quote dealt only with the Indo-European language family. As I told you.
So are you going to support the claim that you actually made or retract it ?

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 Message 75 by Peg, posted 02-09-2009 5:12 AM Peg has replied

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 Message 80 by Peg, posted 02-09-2009 6:25 AM PaulK has replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 80 of 167 (498257)
02-09-2009 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by PaulK
02-09-2009 5:47 AM


Pg 28.
The Common Tongue.
There is no recorded history - that is, no written text - that goes back more then 5,000 years, which is a mere blink of the eye in the timescale of human existence...
pg31. 'the languages of Europe and northern India can be arranged in a kind of family tree that goes back to a single Proto-Indo-European predecessor...'At some point, ALL indo europeans spoke the same language and at some later point various groups must have spread across Europe in one of the great undocumented migrations of prehistory'
they have a timeline of the evolution of language... it begins at 4,000BCE with 'Speakers of the Proto-Indo-European are living someewhere in the Black Sea region'
3,000BCE - 'the westward migration of the Indo European people begins
2,000BCE - A separate Indo-European group moves south thru Persia and into the Indian subcontinent'
from here on various other types of languages appear in various places.
perhaps it would be better if you find the book and read it yourself...i could be reading it all wrong but it seems to me to be saying that all language originated with the PIE and spread out from there.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by PaulK, posted 02-09-2009 6:34 AM Peg has replied
 Message 85 by Modulous, posted 02-09-2009 9:19 AM Peg has not replied
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 Message 94 by bluescat48, posted 02-09-2009 3:59 PM Peg has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 81 of 167 (498258)
02-09-2009 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Peg
02-09-2009 6:25 AM


Maybe you should try reading it. I've bolded the bits you seem to have missed:
pg31. 'the languages of Europe and northern India can be arranged in a kind of family tree that goes back to a single Proto-Indo-European predecessor...'At some point, ALL indo europeans spoke the same language and at some later point various groups must have spread across Europe in one of the great undocumented migrations of prehistory'
As I said it deals only with the Indo-European languages. There are plenty of others (even in Europe there's the Basque language). Most of the Middle-eastern languages aren't part of that family at all ! (Persian is Indo-European, but that's the biggest exception).

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 Message 80 by Peg, posted 02-09-2009 6:25 AM Peg has replied

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 Message 82 by Peg, posted 02-09-2009 6:39 AM PaulK has replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 82 of 167 (498259)
02-09-2009 6:39 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by PaulK
02-09-2009 6:34 AM


the timeline they've charted begins at 4,000 bce with Proto-Indo-European and extends from there
i dont know,
i didnt write the book, im just reading it.

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 Message 81 by PaulK, posted 02-09-2009 6:34 AM PaulK has replied

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 83 of 167 (498261)
02-09-2009 6:47 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Peg
02-09-2009 6:39 AM


The book clearly states that it is talking about the Indo-European languages, which are those of Northern India and Europe. It's in your quotes.
Your claim was about all languages, which includes all those in the rest of the world - Africa, most of Asia, the Americas and Australasia.
quote:
i didnt write the book, im just reading it.
If you wrote the book you wouldn't be misreading it in the way that you are.

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 Message 82 by Peg, posted 02-09-2009 6:39 AM Peg has not replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 84 of 167 (498264)
02-09-2009 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Peg
02-09-2009 2:37 AM


Way Ahead of You
Scientifically it is possible, its called cloning.
A clone is identical to the original. One can't clone a female from a male. And it would be very much easier to convert a female rib into a male.

Genesis 2
17 But of the ponderosa pine, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou shinniest thereof thou shalt sorely learn of thy nakedness.
18 And we all live happily ever after.

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 85 of 167 (498281)
02-09-2009 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Peg
02-09-2009 6:25 AM


Canards
Preposterous. These people are materialistic linguists with an agenda. I've never seen a French verb turn into a Spanish Noun. You can wait 4,000 years if you want and it'll never happen.
As if finding evidence of common ancestry is evidence that languages have changed so that German can become Indian! Nonsense and silliness. How can we teach this to our kids? You know that 200 years ago linguists said some things which today no modern linguist will defend???
the languages of Europe and northern India can be arranged in a kind of family tree that goes back to a single Proto-Indo-European predecessor
Anybody can make a family tree of anything. I can make a family tree so that Navajo is the brother of English - it doesn't mean anything. What if I made a family tree of cutlery? Would that prove that a fork can turn into a spoon?
great undocumented migrations of prehistory
Why do lingualutionists always rely on baseless assertions - this just shows them for what they are! Undocumented indeed! How do they know then?
And where do these lingualutionists think that languages came from in the first place? How can they have any 'so-called theory of lingual common ancestry' until they have observed a new language springing into existence in a labarotory? And even then - how would they know that that happened in history - we can't observe history!!!!!
Actually, that was kind of fun, I can see why evolution deniers do it now: I didn't have to waste any time checking my post was consistent with those pesky facts.

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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 86 of 167 (498283)
02-09-2009 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by lyx2no
02-09-2009 6:54 AM


Re: Way Ahead of You
A clone is identical to the original. One can't clone a female from a male. And it would be very much easier to convert a female rib into a male.
Easier but still very difficult. Which is why if the virgin birth had happened, Jesus would either been female or a haploid male (occurs in bees but not mammals).

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 87 of 167 (498301)
02-09-2009 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Modulous
02-09-2009 9:19 AM


Re: Canards
Why do lingualutionists always rely on baseless assertions - this just shows them for what they are! Undocumented indeed! How do they know then?
And they weren't there to see it. Nobody has seen the micro change of a single word into another kind of word, to say nothing about the macro change (that is pure theory, as there is no evidence for it) of one language into another.
This is all based on belief, just like religion.
Enjoy

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by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 88 of 167 (498302)
02-09-2009 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by RAZD
02-09-2009 2:33 PM


Re: Canards
You know, in swedish we've moved from saying "I skolen" to "Ni skall" to "Du ska". All in the last 60 years, no less.
Oh, it basically means "you will".
What was that about not witnessing micro-change?
If necessary, I can point you to texts that use the three forms, though the second two or more or less contemporary, depending on whether you're speaking, writing, and the level of formality.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 89 of 167 (498304)
02-09-2009 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by kuresu
02-09-2009 2:48 PM


Re: Canards
That doesn't prove macro change though, that's just pure hogwash, has never been observed, can't be recreated in a lab and it certainly isn't science!

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 90 of 167 (498305)
02-09-2009 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by RAZD
02-09-2009 2:33 PM


Re: Canards
RAZD writes:
Nobody has seen the micro change of a single word into another kind of word, to say nothing about the macro change (that is pure theory, as there is no evidence for it) of one language into another.
This is all based on belief, just like religion.
Ya just hafta grok up to the fact that verbing weirds words.

- xongsmith

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