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Author Topic:   51 scientific facts that disprove the Bible
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2599 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 91 of 167 (498308)
02-09-2009 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Huntard
02-09-2009 3:18 PM


Re: Canards
did I mention anything about macro-change? Of course not.
Try actually arguing against what I put forward, instead of creating some silly strawman.
RAZD claimed micro-change in language had never been witnessed. That is, one word changing.
*Although I see I got that slightly wrong, as he defines micro-change as one word changing into another kind of word. So I'm guessing noun-to-verb or something like that. I'm not personally familiar with such in swedish, but the english word "impact", originally a noun, has come to be used as a verb.
If you want evidence of macro change, I point you to the norman invasion of England in 1066 and the subsequent change of Old English into Middle English (and they are two separate languages, as Middle English is somewhat understandable without study unlike Old English). Although that's a somewhat unique case, as it's more like two languages merging to become one than it is one language splitting into two.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Huntard, posted 02-09-2009 3:18 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 92 of 167 (498309)
02-09-2009 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Peg
02-09-2009 6:25 AM


perhaps it would be better if you find the book and read it yourself...i could be reading it all wrong but it seems to me to be saying that all language originated with the PIE and spread out from there.
You are most definitely reading it wrong. As everyone has been trying to tell you and which you have steadfastly refused to understand.
Your book is talking about languages in the Indo-European language family (or as the Germans call it, Indo-Germanisch). It can indeed be said all the languages within the Indo-European language family originated with Proto-Indo-European (PIE). At the same time, it cannot be said -- as you persist in falsely claiming -- that all languages originated with PIE, because the vast majority of human languages that have existed are not a part of the Indo-European language family.
What part of "a non-Indo-European language did not originate from PIE" do you not understand?
Some examples of non-Indo-European languages are Hebrew, Arabic, Basque, Finnish, Hungarian, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Polynesian, Aborigine, American Indian languages, Bantu and other African languages. None of those languages are in the Indo-European language family and none of those languages originated from PIE. Yet you claim that all those languages -- indeed, all languages -- originated with PIE. Why? How?
For your edification (if that is possible), here's a short list of language families from Wikipedia {List of language families - Wikipedia}:
quote:
By number of native speakers
This is a list of the top ten families with wide recognition as phylogenetic units, in terms of numbers of native speakers, listed with their core geographic areas.
1. Indo-European languages (Europe, Southwest to South Asia, America, Oceania)
2. Sino-Tibetan languages (East Asia)
3. Niger-Congo languages (Sub-Saharan Africa)
4. Afro-Asiatic languages (North Africa to Horn of Africa, Southwest Asia)
5. Austronesian languages (Oceania, Madagascar, maritime Southeast Asia)
6. Dravidian languages (South Asia)
7. Altaic languages (Central Asia)
8. Austro-Asiatic languages (mainland Southeast Asia)
9. Tai-Kadai languages (Southeast Asia)
10. Japonic languages (Japan)
Phyla with wide geographical distributions historically but comparatively few contemporary speakers include Eskimo-Aleut, Na-Dené, Algic, Quechuan and Nilo-Saharan.


By variety
According to the numbers in Ethnologue, the largest language families in terms of number of languages are the following. Some families are controversial, and in many the language count varies between researchers.
1. Niger-Congo (1,514 languages)
2. Austronesian (1,268 languages)
3. Trans-New Guinea (564 languages) (number disputed; Malcolm Ross excludes about a hundred of these)
4. Indo-European (449 languages)
5. Sino-Tibetan (403 languages)
6. Afro-Asiatic (375 languages)
7. Nilo-Saharan (204 languages)
8. Pama-Nyungan (178 languages)
9. Oto-Manguean (174 languages) (number varies; Lyle Campbell counts 27)
10. Austro-Asiatic (169 languages)
11. Sepik-Ramu (100 languages) (broken up by Malcolm Ross, with the Sepik family retaining 50)
12. Tai-Kadai (76 languages)
13. Tupi (76 languages)
14. Dravidian (73 languages)
15. Mayan (69 languages)
It has been repeatedly requested of you to support your blatantly false claim that "all language originated with the PIE". Your only response so far has been to blame your book. That response is totally irresponsible and blatantly false since your book does not repeat your claim, but rather only speaks of the Indo-European language family.
Yet again, please support your obviously and blatantly false claim.
Or else finally get a clue.
Edited by dwise1, : Relocated a misplaced sentence

This message is a reply to:
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2381 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 93 of 167 (498310)
02-09-2009 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by kuresu
02-09-2009 3:47 PM


Re: Canards
See, it's not science, it can't be recreated in a lab, you're just guessing this is what happened!
While of course we have the English dictionary to prove that English has never changed, and has always existed in its current form!
You doubt the great wordwriter of the dictionary! You'll go to illiteratehell!
Repent while you can! Believers will be eaten last....Oh wait no, that's Cthulhu. Damn I messed up!

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4275 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 94 of 167 (498312)
02-09-2009 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Peg
02-09-2009 6:25 AM


pg31. 'the languages of Europe and northern India can be arranged in a kind of family tree that goes back to a single Proto-Indo-European predecessor...'At some point, ALL indo europeans spoke the same language and at some later point various groups must have spread across Europe in one of the great undocumented migrations of prehistory'
You are obviously reading something into the passage which is not there.
note the bold parts for emphasis. The writer is talking about the Indo European peoples, not all peoples.The PIE is the forerunner to the Germanic, Slavic, Romance, Greek, Keltic, Albanian, Bulgar, Hittite, Armenian, Persian & Hindi, the Indo-European Languages

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2293
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 95 of 167 (498317)
02-09-2009 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Peg
02-09-2009 5:14 AM


Re: Ouch!
what is important is that they are saying all languages can be traced back to an original language.
Except that is not what they're saying, your continued misrepresentation is getting very tiresome.

soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1491 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 96 of 167 (498337)
02-09-2009 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by kuresu
02-09-2009 3:47 PM


Re: Canards
you're being way to serious about the "tongue" in cheek parody

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by kuresu, posted 02-09-2009 3:47 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by kuresu, posted 02-10-2009 1:20 AM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1491 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 97 of 167 (498341)
02-09-2009 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by xongsmith
02-09-2009 3:33 PM


Re: Canards
Ya just hafta grok up to the fact that verbing weirds words.
But you didn't see it happen, you just have evidence after it appeared fully formed. This is really evidence that it was designed by the great god Heinlein rather than evolution.

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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2599 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 98 of 167 (498382)
02-10-2009 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by RAZD
02-09-2009 8:09 PM


Re: Canards
perhaps my first post with the "" wasn't enough? should have used another one?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by RAZD, posted 02-09-2009 8:09 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1491 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 99 of 167 (498462)
02-10-2009 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by kuresu
02-10-2009 1:20 AM


Re: Canards
... should have used another one?
No, you just need to be more over the top.

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 167 (498473)
02-10-2009 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by deerbreh
02-09-2009 9:28 AM


Re: Way Ahead of You
deerbreh writes:
Easier but still very difficult. Which is why if the virgin birth had happened, Jesus would either been female or a haploid male (occurs in bees but not mammals).
God's Holy Spirit (male gender) fathered Jesus.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

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Replies to this message:
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lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 101 of 167 (498474)
02-10-2009 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Buzsaw
02-10-2009 10:11 PM


Male?
With whom would God have sex that It be called a male?
Edited by lyx2no, : Logic

Genesis 2
17 But of the ponderosa pine, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou shinniest thereof thou shalt sorely learn of thy nakedness.
18 And we all live happily ever after.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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anglagard
Member (Idle past 922 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 102 of 167 (498480)
02-11-2009 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by lyx2no
02-10-2009 10:20 PM


Re: Male?
This all male club of fundamentalist Western religion, including Christianity, Islam, and Judaism sure brings up some important questions.
Seems like heaven to these male-only theists is some weird version of the bathhouses on Castro Street in San Fransisco back in the 70's prior to the outbreak of AIDS. After all, everyone must not only completely agree with them on every issue to achieve eternity, in most cases they have to be direct genetic clones.
Sure provides some insight into the homophobia, perhaps like Catholic priests, it is time to come out of the closet. Let's all hope, in the name of God, the worst fundies can limit their desires to those over 18.
Edited by anglagard, : not to tar all 'fundies' with a moniker, but let it be said, all too often they reap what they sow.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4079 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 103 of 167 (498489)
02-11-2009 5:49 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by anglagard
02-11-2009 2:25 AM


Re: Male?
Bugger the all male angle, Angla, I want to know how Jesus got out of the womb and left the virgo intacta. Osmosis? :-)

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Shield
Member (Idle past 2948 days)
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-29-2008


Message 104 of 167 (498492)
02-11-2009 6:51 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Buzsaw
02-10-2009 10:11 PM


Re: Way Ahead of You
Does a female god exist? If there are no opposites of god, how can god have a gender?
Is satan female?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Buzsaw, posted 02-10-2009 10:11 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 105 of 167 (498500)
02-11-2009 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Shield
02-11-2009 6:51 AM


Re: Way Ahead of You
rpb writes:
Does a female god exist? If there are no opposites of god, how can god have a gender?
Is satan female?
All we know is that there is no marriage in Heaven. All heavenly entities mentioned in Heaven are depicted in the male gender. That worked to bring Jesus into the world. The details of how it worked are not given.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
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