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Author Topic:   Exodus, Merneptah stela and israelites
PaulK
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Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 3 of 175 (410898)
07-17-2007 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Reding
07-17-2007 5:59 PM


quote:
I'm not sure i understand something. Is it valid to claim that despite the name Israel mentioned on the Merneptah stele the Egyptians never mentioned them in their records regarding the supposed exodus?
Yes, it is valid. the Merneptah stele refers to the defeat of a nomadic people called Israel - in Canaan. It is the earliest known reference to Israel and it best matches the Judges period.
quote:
I might have my dates mixed up and I wonder if this is a valid statement to dispel the comparison between the israelites and the hyksos. I remember reading on some other website that the hyksos could be the israelites who were driven away from egypt...
We don't have a reliable date for the Exodus. The Hyksos connection was made by some ancient writers but it is not a good match for the Exodus story. The Hyksos were a ruling dynasty, driven out by war - not escaped slaves. The Hyksos were driven out of Egypt by the 18th Dynasty approximately 350 years before the campaign recorded by the stele.
Hope this helps.

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 18 of 175 (411010)
07-18-2007 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by IamJoseph
07-18-2007 11:13 AM


Re: another really stupid assertion.
Sticking to the Merneptah stele it confirms that Exodus was written well after the (alleged) events i describes.
As the article you quote states it must have been inscribed well after the Exodus, sicne Israel is well established in Canaan at that time.
Exodus 13:17 tells us:
Now when Pharaoh had let the people go, God did not lead them by the way of the land of the Philistines, even though it was near; for God said, "The people might change their minds when they see war, and return to Egypt."
Obviously at the time of writing there must have been an identifiable "land of the Philistines" - and the writer seems to believe that there were hostile Philistines there.
However the Philistines did not settle in the area until the reign of Rameses III - who came after Merneptah. Thus Exodus 13:17 was certainly written many years after the Exodus was supposed to have happened. And it appears that it was written so much later that the writer wrongly thought that the Philistines were there !

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 28 of 175 (411050)
07-18-2007 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by IamJoseph
07-18-2007 3:31 PM


Re: another really stupid assertion.
No, no Philistines around at the time of the Patriarchs. Not unless you want to move the Patriarchs to the 12th century BC !

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 46 of 175 (411169)
07-19-2007 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by IamJoseph
07-19-2007 2:02 AM


Re: Dates
quote:
The 'day' the ten commandments were given is recorded as a saturday in the book of Exodus ('REMEMBER *THIS* DAY AS THE SABBATH'/EX). Care to explain how this is determinable - without a year, as you put it? Its a question of math!
You "worked it out" through the quote you provided. You didn't need to know the year - or do any math. Ergo your challenge answers itself.

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 49 of 175 (411189)
07-19-2007 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by IamJoseph
07-19-2007 8:49 AM


Re: Dates
Let us be clear. You claimed that it was impossible to work out that the day was a Saturday without knowing the year. However you did exactly that. And I strongly suggest that you produce these alleged calculations before you are suspended again for refusing to support your claims.

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 57 of 175 (411246)
07-19-2007 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Reding
07-19-2007 4:55 PM


Essentially the Canaanite states accepted Egyptian superiority, allowed Egyptian garrisons in their cities, paid tribute. The Amarna letters come from a time when the system was breaking down but you still can see Canaanite rulers begging for Egyptian troops to help them and professing loyalty. Egypt was strong and the Canaanites were so weak in military terms that even small garrisons were enough to ensure loyalty.

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