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Author Topic:   Why Literal?
Paul
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 120 (37853)
04-24-2003 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by truthlover
04-24-2003 2:39 AM


Re: Good questions
Hi TL
I just wanted to give a few thoughts on your reference to Romans 3:28 and James 2:24. Grab your Bible
I'm really quite surprised that Martin Luther would have had difficulty with this as there is a clear direction in both passages. It is EXTREMELY important that when reading the Bible the individual know both the theme of the book itself and especially the context of the chapter in which a passage is being refered to.
Here in Romans Ch.3 the Apostle Paul is in a direct dialogue with the Jews and has been proving throughout the chapter that the Jews are as guilty and condemned as the Gentiles and that both must be saved by the redemption in Christ. Paul was trying to help them understand that the Law could only condemn , not justify, and that justification by Faith in Christ was the only remedy for sin, not by boasting in their religion, works, or law keeping(v27). Therefore the gist of this chapter including v28 is " Grace through Faith, not Law, Justifies".
In James Ch.2 we have both Faith and Works being refered to in the theme of Christian Living, Brotherly Love and the testing of our Faith. James is making it quite clear that there are those in life that "say" they have faith and that works are not neccessary in Christian living(v14). He asks,is there any "profit" in having Faith alone and not Works? Can Faith alone save ? It must be totally clear hear that James is NOT referring to "initial" justifying Faith here, but to the demonstration of Christian faith through acts of kindness towards people and obedience to God. Christianity demands of its followers good works to all mankind(Mt.5:16, Eph.2:10, 1Tim.6:18 etc.) As we have seen, one is not justified by Works(Rom. 3:25-31, 9:11, Gal.2:16, Tit3:5), but justified ones must do them to prove their Christian Consecration(Jam.2:14-18, 20-26). Therefore the Gist of this chapter including v24 is that Faith, with Works done in humility, shows that Faith, and more importantly their Love and Consecration to God and mankind.
Hope This Helps
Paul

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by truthlover, posted 04-24-2003 2:39 AM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by truthlover, posted 04-24-2003 1:47 PM Paul has replied

  
Paul
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 120 (37882)
04-24-2003 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by truthlover
04-24-2003 1:47 PM


Re: Good questions
Hi TL
There are also some extremely difficult to reconcile passages
I just wanted to point out that there was no reconciliation needed between these two passages.
My apologies if I've offended you
Respectfully, Paul

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by truthlover, posted 04-24-2003 1:47 PM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by truthlover, posted 04-24-2003 3:57 PM Paul has not replied

  
Paul
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 120 (37901)
04-24-2003 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dan Carroll
04-23-2003 10:07 PM


Hi Dan
Good Question. It's very evident that the Bible contains some "unique" books, chapters, and passages that are quite amazing and sometimes mind boggling. After 30 yrs. of research though I've come to belive it to be the literal, inspired, written word of God. Given to us as a revelation of the origin and destiny of all things, through many different authors in their own unique styles and languages, with the Divine inspiration guarenteeing unity of truth throughout its wholeness. God is truth and therefore his inspiration is true. Titus 1:2 tells us that God cannot lie, therefore if God cannot lie his inspiration cannot lie.
One thing I've always tried to do is to "literalize" instead of "spiritualize". My Approach Is: Take the Bible Literally wherein it is at all possible; if symbolic, figurative or typical language is used, then search for the literal truth it intends to convey.
As a literary composition it's unrivaled with 66 books, over 40 authors and over a period of 1800 years. It contains various literary forms-- history, biography, poetry, proverbial sayings, hymns, letters, laws, parables, riddles, allegories, prophecy and other forms of human expression all testifying to the same thing. That is to reveal the mind of God, the state of humanity, the way of salvation, the penalty for sin, and the happiness for believers.
Why does the bible being the direct word of God necessarily mean that it is a truthful word of God?
Because it's inspired 2Tim.3:16..and God cannot lie Titus 1:2
Paul

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-23-2003 10:07 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-24-2003 4:56 PM Paul has not replied
 Message 31 by PaulK, posted 04-24-2003 5:05 PM Paul has replied

  
Paul
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 120 (37951)
04-24-2003 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by PaulK
04-24-2003 5:05 PM


Hi PaulK
Fair Question,
Please remember Paul that the Bible is NOT an "autobiography". It is a "biography", that has been uniquely authored with the full inspiration of(2Tim.3:16), the full assistance of, and at the direction of, "the subject".
It is akin to PaulK wanting to tell his life story in a book and asks 40 of his closest and dearest friends to help him write it, as they were a big part of his life. PaulK accomplishes this by actually giving each friend a segment of the book to complete as it relates to their individual experiences together, and Paul also assists each friend until the segment is complete. This method gives the very best and accurate information pertaining to PaulK's life and his experiences with his friends as possible, and maximizes the credibility of the book.
PaulK is never in the first person, however it is his book, about him and his expeiences, inspired by him, yet authored by others.
One of the attributes of God is Humility. This is a great example of that. "Never one to Toot his own horn"
Paul

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by PaulK, posted 04-24-2003 5:05 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by crashfrog, posted 04-24-2003 10:18 PM Paul has not replied
 Message 37 by PaulK, posted 04-25-2003 3:37 AM Paul has replied

  
Paul
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 120 (38002)
04-25-2003 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by PaulK
04-25-2003 3:37 AM


Hi Paul, Crash,
" All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2Tim.3:16
As the verse above says, every word, every verse, every chapter, every book, has been given by God. Therefore it's his Word.
The Greek word for inspiration here is "theopneustos"-God breathed. It was that special influence of the Holy Spirit that gifted these people to write an infallible record of divine truth concerning all things, and at the same time being exactly what God wanted the record to be, word for word.
So my answer is that the Bible "IS" the literal written word of God.
Respectfully, Paul

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by PaulK, posted 04-25-2003 3:37 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by PaulK, posted 04-25-2003 9:48 AM Paul has replied
 Message 41 by Karl, posted 04-25-2003 10:35 AM Paul has replied

  
Paul
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 120 (38034)
04-25-2003 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Karl
04-25-2003 10:35 AM


Hi Karl,
The Apostle Pauls goal here was not to say that it was inerrant, but that it was "inspired". However, others did say so.
Psalm 19
7 The law of the LORD is perfect,
reviving the soul.
The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy,
making wise the simple.
8 The precepts of the LORD are right,
giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the LORD are radiant,
giving light to the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is pure,
enduring forever.
The ordinances of the LORD are sure
and altogether righteous.
10 They are more precious than gold,
than much pure gold;
they are sweeter than honey,
than honey from the comb.
The Word of God is:
1. Perfect (v7)
2. Sure (v7)
3. Right (v8)
4. Pure (v8)
5. Clean (v9)
6. Eternal (v9)
7. True (v9)
8. Altogether Righteous (v9)
9. To be desired more than riches (v10)
9. Sweeter than honey (v10)
Inerrant indeed.
James 1:22-25 also makes reference to the inerrancy and perfection of Gods Word
Respectfully, Paul.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Karl, posted 04-25-2003 10:35 AM Karl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Coragyps, posted 04-25-2003 3:30 PM Paul has not replied
 Message 50 by crashfrog, posted 04-25-2003 4:05 PM Paul has replied
 Message 51 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-25-2003 4:06 PM Paul has not replied
 Message 57 by Mister Pamboli, posted 04-25-2003 5:03 PM Paul has not replied
 Message 61 by Karl, posted 04-28-2003 4:34 AM Paul has not replied

  
Paul
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 120 (38042)
04-25-2003 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by PaulK
04-25-2003 9:48 AM


And one last point - the fact that you choose to quote a Bible verse that is too vague to decide the issue (even assuming it to be correct and to refer to the Bible as we have it - neither of which is provable) does not speak well for your "30 years of research".
Hmm... I don't recall belittling you at all Paul. I'm surprised by this
Respectfully, Paul.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by PaulK, posted 04-25-2003 9:48 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by PaulK, posted 04-25-2003 5:03 PM Paul has not replied

  
Paul
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 120 (38057)
04-25-2003 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by crashfrog
04-25-2003 4:05 PM


Hi Crash,
The Bible doesn't verify "itself". As I pointed out, it's a divinely inspired co-authored book with over 40 participants, and "they", through inspiration and personal experience, all verify the same thing. That being, the reality of a living God and his divine Creation, as well as the purposes and plans for the Ages.
Paul

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by crashfrog, posted 04-25-2003 4:05 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Mister Pamboli, posted 04-25-2003 5:07 PM Paul has not replied

  
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