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Author Topic:   Bible Question: What was the First Sin?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 42 of 312 (53914)
09-04-2003 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Rrhain
09-04-2003 7:33 PM


Then I was right...the first sin was running around naked.
Is there an actual Biblical basis to the idea that nudity is a sin? Just because they feel ashamed and embarassed doesn't mean that they're hell-bound, now. And they were married, right?
Why is it any more sinful for Adam to be naked with his wife than for me with mine?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Rrhain, posted 09-04-2003 7:33 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Rrhain, posted 09-05-2003 2:55 PM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 48 of 312 (54076)
09-05-2003 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Rrhain
09-05-2003 2:55 PM


Yes, but what does that have to do with anything?
Well, I just mention it because they're the only two people who exist at the time, and the entire garden is theirs, so it's no more sinful for them to be naked than for me and the wife to walk around the house naked. (Sorry for the mental image.) Unless that's a sin?
there is something unusual about being nude and looking upon someone else without clothes has strictures placed upon it.
Sure. I mean, I'm willing to grant that being naked in public is bad - that there's some people who shouldn't see you naked. But clearly there's some people who have to see you naked, so it can't be a big deal.
Clearly the bible is down on public nudity. But if the only other person who exists is your wife, and the entire world is your home and garden, is that public nudity? I don't think so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Rrhain, posted 09-05-2003 2:55 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Rrhain, posted 09-10-2003 6:30 AM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 52 of 312 (54738)
09-10-2003 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Rrhain
09-10-2003 6:30 AM


Well, according to the Bible, it is nudity and it is something to be ashamed of. The Bible makes a point of their shamelessness in being naked before eating of the Tree of Knowledge and follows it up by having Adam and Eve panicking over the fact that they are naked when they do.
Right, but is their shame indicative of sinfulness? That's the jump that I don't see supported by the Bible. What I see is that the writers of Genesis expected their audience to already believe that nudity was a sin. What I don't see is a specific Biblical condemnation from God of a man and his wife being naked together in their garden. If they're shame is supposed to imply, that, fine, but that's something I'll need a little more support for. After all sometimes people get ashamed of perfectly non-sinful things that they do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Rrhain, posted 09-10-2003 6:30 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by doctrbill, posted 09-10-2003 2:31 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 54 by Rrhain, posted 09-10-2003 10:00 PM crashfrog has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 283 of 312 (433186)
11-10-2007 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Lysimachus
11-10-2007 1:53 PM


We have to remember that the Bible is simply silent in some matters of discussion, which is why we must rely on the wonderful blessing of human intelligence---it's called, "reading between the lines".
Yeah, I mean, hey - why be limited to what is just written in the Bible? It's so much easier when you can just pretend like it says whatever you want it to!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Lysimachus, posted 11-10-2007 1:53 PM Lysimachus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Lysimachus, posted 11-10-2007 2:04 PM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 285 of 312 (433190)
11-10-2007 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by Lysimachus
11-10-2007 2:04 PM


Even a kid in kindergarden can ascertain that the verse simply implies that is what God told Adam and Eve. By jolly, do you think the Bible is going to describe every detail...(i.e. Adam and Eve visited the south pole...they built a house, they named their favorite pet Lion 'Leo').
The expectations I would have for the Bible depend on what you expect me to believe the Bible is.
As a written record of traditional Hebrew oral myths? No, I wouldn't expect the Bible to go into every detail, nor provide any more information than is necessary for the reader to get the general gist of the myth.
As God's inerrant Word to His creation, detailing every way in which a person should live? I would expect significantly more detail, and at the same time, less outright self-contradiction.
Like I said it all depends on what you think the Bible is. It's certainly what we would expect if it's just (heh; "just") a long-surviving record of the myths of an interesting culture. It doesn't even begin to rise to the level of a supernatural dictation from the Creator of All. Don't discredit your intelligence and try to assert that you or anybody couldn't write, on their own, a more insightful and self-consistent bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Lysimachus, posted 11-10-2007 2:04 PM Lysimachus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by Lysimachus, posted 11-10-2007 3:01 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 290 by bluescat48, posted 12-06-2007 1:39 PM crashfrog has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 287 of 312 (433198)
11-10-2007 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Lysimachus
11-10-2007 3:01 PM


Crashfrog, if the bible gave you any more detail, you still would not believe.
Believe what?
It's only a matter of time before you will be forced to believe, Crashfrog.
Thank you for revealing the Christianist agenda so openly. By all means, try and bully me into believing your nonsense mythology.
It's all leading up to one giant showdown with Armageddon.
Lol! I wonder - does the vast array of faulty predictions of "imminent" Armageddon handed down through the years faze you in the slightest? The odds are astronomical that there will be any outcome other than doomsayers like you looking completely foolish as the dates of your supposed "end of the world" come and go, and go, and go, and go, like they always do. You think you're Noah, crying "flood", when really you're the boy, crying "wolf."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Lysimachus, posted 11-10-2007 3:01 PM Lysimachus has not replied

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