How can we be possibly be happy in Heaven?

Hi, Well I am an atheist.
Evolutionist.
I regard the Bible as a great collection of ancient literature, but it is only literature, it is not an accurate record of history or science. Can you suggest a better approach? I was a Xian for 20 years and believed that I communicated with God on a regular basis. I have no immediate desire to enter the world of self delusion. God cannot comprehend the superior intelligence that we have, we are so superior to God that trying to communicate with Him is pointless God does not understand us because God is not playing with the full deck.Brian.

Prozacman responds to me:

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It seems very plain to me that WHEN "you shall know them by their fruits", THEN you have just made a judgement call.

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The question becomes, then, what does "judging" mean? There is a difference between noticing the behaviour of others and adjusting your life accordingly and actually doing something to them.There is a difference between not stopping somebody from worshipping some god other than yours but simply refusing to participate and actively preventing them from doing so.Of course, the next question has to do with the context surrounding "by their fruits." That passage is out of Matthew 7 (specifically Mat 7:16 and 7:20). Notice that this is right after Matthew 7:1-2 about judging not (and Mat 7:3-5 is about removing the plank from your own eye before you worry about the mote in your brother's.) Nowhere in the phrases about "by their fruits" do we find anything about doing anything to those who are "false prophets." You simply ignore them, stay the course, and let god worry about it.Is there an indication that the verses about "by their fruits" have some indication about actively doing something to somebody else?------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

My dear Rrhian, I am positively straining at what your illustrious person is attempting to communicate! At the moment my puny, unworthy, lowly mind is in a most horrible state of wretched filth! Perhaps it becomes necessary to study(yeah right) the most highly revered Bible references that your cosmic eminence has so graciously provided. I humbly beseech thee to further give explaination to your most senior educated comments, and I will be awaiting your incredibly grand reply. However, I will copy said comments provided, and read over them to attempt a somewhat diluted understanding of the situation. Thankyou profusely sire. Hummf![This message has been edited by Prozacman, 10-02-2003]

OR, God is more human than we thought and he isnt playing with a full deck. I get that idea from having read "God: A Biography", by Jack Miles, a fascinating look at how the God of the(Jewish) Bible evolves during the religious life of the Jews. PM

If we believe the Bible, then God has already tried to "change the system" more than once, and he did so without asking us humans what WE thought. Examples: the Fall, the Confusion of Languages, the Flood, etc. PM[This message has been edited by Prozacman, 10-02-2003]

IQ is limited in it's impact on our ability to understanding the purpose of our existence. EQ, AQ, PQ, SQ, MQ and of course CQ are just as important.It is also possible that a Being that is eternal, omnipotent and omniscient, realising our limited ability to fathom it's mind, may simply have decided to tell us the purpose - hence revelation.Purposes are apparent in nature. They are often designed into the function of things. These functions comprise the purpose for that thing. A leaf, for example, is designed for the purpose of converting sunlight into food for a plant. We may never perceive the whole purpose of everything, since we are finite, yet we do (everyday) perceive the smaller purposes of somethings - and if enough somethings accumulate - we begin to get an idea of the gestalt whole - a glimpse of the bigger message.Of couse if you want to save yourself all this trouble - just pick up a Bible.

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Of course if you want to save yourself all this trouble - just pick up a Bible.

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.Yes! Then I could read about important things like dietary prohibitions for a pre-refrigeration culture, and how God really digs the smell of roasted flesh.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

Purpose is in your mind. There's no purpose outside of it. Unless you believe that the purpose of sticks and stones is to be used as levers?If I use a screwdriver in the function of a hammer, does that become its purpose? What if the guy who made it never intended it to be used that way? And if an object can have functions that aren't its "purpose", then how can function be used to determine "purpose"?There's only one way to determine purpose. Ask the guy who made it. If nobody made it, though, it has no purpose.

As you say purposes originate in minds. Truely they are recognizable in the actions of a mind, being demonstrable in the things that a mind has created.To argue otherwise would be to deny the posibility that any human being or other animal could show any physical evidence of having a purpose by it's actions - which would be a patently absurd position to take.Furthermore, purposes in nature are not incidentally associated with the structure of a thing ( as in the example of your stick and stones being used as levers). Rather the purposes are incredibly integrated with the object such that it's many hundreds of parts are all serving a common function. eg the Eye, retina, lens, optic nerve, visual cortex. There is nothing incidental (chancy) about this.You admit that there is a way of determining purpose - To ask the guy who made it. To listen to his voice. Has it occurred to you that a person can speak through their actions also. Infact, a voice is an action - being a meaningfully organised emission of sound.Can you think of any other organizations of energy that are meaningful - the written word perhaps. A code perhaps. - A genetic code. Quite frankly it is hilarious that you think all this is incidental and purposeless. Such reasoning is a relic of the 19th century.

I do not believe that God digs the smell of roasted flesh anymore? He has recently informed us that roasted flesh is nolonger accepted as sacrifice. In order to save our own flesh from being roasted he sent Jesus. Ultimately, Jesus got roasted on our behalf - an action motivated by the purest love.30A.D - Jesus became the true atoning sacrifice.
30A.D. - God ceased to accept animal sacrifices.Besides dietry pro-hibitions there are other laws - eg the Ten Commandments - these are still valid and in force and are the vary basis of our criminal nand common law.

Don't be so defeatist.

Why would God ever accept animal sacrifices? What does that have to do with sin?

I thought you were just a post-and-run offender, Philo! Looks like you're sticking around, though. Replies are waiting for you over in the "Long,long lives in the Old Testament" thread.[This message has been edited by Zhimbo, 10-03-2003]

How many states still have the death penalty for those caught working on the Sabbath?

Philo-sopher writes:

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Besides dietry pro-hibitions there are other laws - eg the Ten Commandments - these are still valid and in force and are the vary basis of our criminal nand common law.

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Um, the first few commandments are in direct contradiction with regard to the First Amendment of the US Constitution. Now, I realize that you're in London and thus, the US Constitution doesn't apply, but we here in this country don't seem to recognize that "vary [sic] basis."In fact, of the ten, only three-and-a-half have any basis in our legal system (killing, stealing, bearing false witness, and the half one about adultery). But those three are hardly unique to Christianity. Pretty much every culture seems to think that it isn't a good idea to kill people, steal from people, or lie.So I fail to see how the Ten Commandments form the basis of modern law.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!