Fullfilled Bible prophecy

Willow wrote: I don't believe I actually used the word liar....I was actually trying to help you out. On the face of it, Mathew's attempts at phrophecy fulfilment appear... less than credible. As an act of concession I included the reference to that article which states that Mathew had honest intentions. I still think it's dodgey, but I can't go so far as to impugn his intentions.It sounds like you are trying the (Jesus) must be a liar/madman or the son of God argument you failed to convey in another thread a while back (Checkmate evidence).Mathew need not be lying or or conveying the truth, with no other option in between. He could believe he was telling the truth, but actually be very mistaken. I don't think that you lie when you make your arguments on this forum. You are just mistaken in the belief that you are conveying the truth.We can see how Mathew is honetsly mistaken. It was conveyed in my posts above.I'll have to do more homework and have more time to respond to the rest of yuor post.One last point, the Jesus Seminar is very worrying for fundie Christians. Over 20 years, over 200 of the world's leading Bible scholars undercut fundie Bible interpretations, right down to denying the occurance of a bodily resurrection.What a problem...Not Found - Webflow HTML website template

Gilgamesh,I'm not going to argue with you. I told you like it is, and you will just have to wait and see until the day of judgement. Only then will you see what I mean. Jesus is coming and he's coming soon. The world's population is nearing it's zeneth point, and one day all the world will wonder after beast of Revelation (one new world order of religion). But God's faithful will stand in that trying day and not give in to the beast and his image, but will uphold the Law of God (The Ten Commandments) which will be contrary to the laws of men.

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~Lysimachus

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We can see how Mathew is honetsly mistaken. It was conveyed in my posts above.

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Speak for yourself.Only Bible hating atheists assert Matthew mistaken. This is done for obvious reasons, namely their God don't exist worldview.No rational and honest person would conclude that Matthew was mistaken when the very purpose he wrote was to evidence that Jesus was the Messiah.You only say he was mistaken because you understand what he is saying.
Asserting Matthew mistaken is an opinion based upon the bias of your worldview.

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One last point, the Jesus Seminar is very worrying for fundie Christians. Over 20 years, over 200 of the world's leading Bible scholars undercut fundie Bible interpretations, right down to denying the occurance of a bodily resurrection.

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Yes, the Jesus Seminar asserts no resurrection, this is well known.
The JS is a body of atheists who do not believe that miracles can happen. No atheist parading around with credentials can be honest about something that they would never admit happen despite the voluminous evidence. The atheists of the JS always will conclude according to their worldview and its hatred of christianity. You assume a scholar with divinity credentials will be honest, but the truth is they will only focus on that which confirms their personal atheist beliefs.BTW, I am not a Fundementalist.Go to the "Faith and Belief" Forum and read my topic "What God thinks of Fundementalism" if you care.This message has been edited by WILLOWTREE, 06-28-2004 10:59 PM

I'm not a fundie either. I don't belong to any church organization. I'm simply a Bible believing Christian.The term "Fundamentalist" is a term in which tradition has coined as for various denominations around the world. I do not believe in denominations. The Bible never says we have to belong to a denomination. Also, God never meant for his "church" to be a denomination. God's church simply stands for all those who are faithful, not a building.This message has been edited by Lysimachus, 06-28-2004 07:04 PM

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~Lysimachus

I refer to fundamentialism in the traditional sense of the word:- A religious movement characterised by the return to fundamental principles of Christianity, rigid adherence to these principles, intolerance of other views including secularism.or- An organised militant evangelical movement originating in the US late 19c or early 20c in opposition to Protestant liberalism and secularism, insisting on the inerrancy of the scripture.Fundamentalist Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.comIf you guys don't fall within either of these definitions, these please accept my sincere apologies.If you feel that you do not fall into either of these definitions because in the same convoluted and semantically tortuous way that many fundies like to consider themselves not "religious", then please accept my utter contempt.

Willow wrote: Please don't make me re-write the examples above that I gave of Mathew's attempts to demonstrate fulfilled prophecy. I think the examples were very clear.You do not have to be a Bible scholar to see that Matthew, can't quote the OT correctly and can't read sentences in the context of the OT in which they appear.No rational person would conclude that this is not an example of manufactured prophecy, unless you are blinded by faith. I think you'll find that many of the Jesus Seminar are themselves Christians. They are certainly qualified to make assessments on Biblical history. If modern Biblical scholarship has revealed that the supernatural claims of the Bible are mythical, then it is time to re-assess your stance on these matters.And this is a question I ask many Christians: how could it ever be proven to you that certain aspects of your belief are false?If evidence and the findings of the world's most knowledgeable contemporary scholars disagree with that you take on faith and on the word on one scholar (Scott), then isn't it time to take heed and reassess? It's your salvation on the line here, afterall.What does the Bible say about false prophets?This revelation need not be incompatible with your Christian faith. There are several Christians on this forum who have no trouble sustaining their belief on faith alone and are also able to incorporate our 21st century understanding of Biblical history.Time to crawl out of fundamentalism.Not Found - Webflow HTML website template

Within the realms of faith, there is a great possibility of error. That is why we have to constantly be on guard and pray that we are not deceived. But when it enters the realms of secularlism that leaves God out of the picture, we Christians know that we've entered into forbidden realms.There is nothing wrong for Christians to adapt to the new environment of the world. I'm adapting all the time--technology, dress, etc. But when it comes to moral values of which the Bible clearly speaks against (such as Romans 1 on the sinfulness of homosexuality "men with men and women with women receiving their own recompence", etc.), and the world starts to push us to accept these ideas, we are expected from God to uphold these values.As far as adapting to our environment, there is nothing wrong as long as it doesn't contradict scripture. But of the morals of our nations start to decline and blatantly do sins that are contrary to scripture, we as Christians must stand like a rock and not waver in the slightest.God blessed America because it was founded on Christian principles (even though there were many unchristian principles intermingled). However, I want you to notice a trend. The more America begins to bring down the morals of this country, the more God's Holy Spirit will be withdrawn from this nation and will be less protected. As America continues to decline (i.e. by allowing gay marriages to finally take full sway nation wide), terrorism will begin to increase, and the security of this nation will begin to decline as far as providing the necessary security for this country. This nation will begin to rapidly decline, and it will be no longer a country of safety.God is trying to tell America to wake up, but instead, are drifting away from moral principles. The more America drifts away from moral principles, the more you will see danger and insecurity increase.I will adhere to the fact that fundamentalism is ever declining. Liberalism is taking full sway. However, there will be a small gruop of people who will not be influenced in the slightest. These people are the last group who will stand faithful like a rock in whom Christ will finally say "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus"-- Revelation 14:12In addition to this, [i]Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.--Matthew 7:14Christians around the world are of great number, but that number is declining, and new ideas are springing forth throughout the world. Liberals, atheists, etc. are telling us "it's time to start thinking in 21st century terms...be-rid of fundamentalism" Let's come to face the new ideas taking sway"---which is why it is a known fact that Christianity is slowly waning.So you see, this was prophecied. This is supposed to happen. But here we are told that "FEW" will find the straight and narrow gate. This is telling us that even as many Christians as there are, few will find it, (because many will be lead astray by new ideas).This remnant few are what the Bible labels as the "144,000" who do not receive the mark of the beast, but have no guile in their mouths and why symbolically receive the seal of God in their foreheads.These remaining few will be persecuted at the end. They will be scoffed at for their faith and told that they are in "the old school". Then is when the Lord will appear in the clouds and say to the world Revelation 14:12, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus". What a sad day it will be. Most of the world's population will reject God, but to think that God is willing to wait as long as He has been for even a FEW, shows us His wonderful love.For the first time ever, Christ's character will be fully reproduced, and the world will finally know there were truly a people who really loved Him and did not base their beliefs on the customs and practices of the world.This message has been edited by Lysimachus, 06-29-2004 09:29 AM

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~Lysimachus

once a thriving city of international flavor, was destroyed by Alexander in 332 BC after a 7-months siege. Ez.26:3-5, 12,14 tells what it would become and it became. A haven for fishermen to cast their nets.

Ah, let's see. Ez.26:14 you say? you shall be built no moreIt's still very much on my map (pop. 118.500 as of 2004). Same name, same location; yep, they must have rebuilt it.

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For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace. 1 Cor.14:33

Hmmm, I think someone needs to contact the webmaster at Lebanon.com, they are under the delusion that a desolate rock and uninhabited ruin is actually their fourth largest city and number one tourist attraction.
Tourism @ Lebanon.com
Again, this is a prophesy that never happened. Alexander didn't destroy the city, he conquered it, but it still stood. In fact, I think it's one of the oldest continually inhabited cities in the world. I believe that Ezekial was writing at the time of or shortly after Alexanders conquest and was assuming the city would never be inhabited again. Sort of the Weekly World News writer of his time...

Actually, Zeke was considerably earlier IIRC. He was most likely speaking of the attack on Tyre by Nebuchadnezzar which was about the time of Zeke and not Alexander.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

my resources say a rock for fishermen and no more. Will research.
Thank you.

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Please don't make me re-write the examples above that I gave of Mathew's attempts to demonstrate fulfilled prophecy. I think the examples were very clear.

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Yes, your predictible atheist opinions about Divine scrpiture was very clear.

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You do not have to be a Bible scholar to see that Matthew, can't quote the OT correctly and can't read sentences in the context of the OT in which they appear.

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Matthew used the LXX, because it was THE source of N.T. times. It was KJV translators who used two different sources when translating Matthew and Psalms. This was explained, but you choose to ignore this and conclude Matthew a liar despite evidence.

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No rational person would conclude that this is not an example of manufactured prophecy

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Then Matthew is liar.You are waffling.Sometimes you try to pass yourself off as superior intellect trying to educate dumb christians that the Bible is wrong because a God senseless atheist just says so.The prophecy fulfillment recorded by Matthew is stunning and all you can say in response is something the text doesn't say. In other words, the gospel according to Gil says Matthew is a liar.Hey everyone, Gil and his atheist friends have objectively decided Matthew a liar. We can all stop debating now - they wouldn't lie and to be mistaken is not possible. Everyone log off - Gil has exposed the Bible to be wrong/lies with his deep subjective unaffected by atheism arguments !

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I think you'll find that many of the Jesus Seminar are themselves Christians.

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It doesn't matter what they claim.They are blatantly dishonest "scholars" using the facade of educational credentials to kindly destroy the doctrines of the church/christianity because of a pure hatred of the Resurrected Christ.Christianity begins with the claim of a miracle - the Resurrection. The common denominator of the members of the JS is that NONE of them believe in the supernatural/miracles exist - closet atheists deceiving and lying about their true agenda.The vote on their platform using "colored marbles". They blackball every miracle claim and prophecy as "untrue" arbitrarily because of their personal beliefs. As if ones personal beliefs are not being promoted in their conclusions !Over the centuries people claiming to be christians have conducted bloody murderous crusades and martyred the Reformers in Jesus name.
Now a atheist mob of pseudo-scholars assume a fascist belief to set everyone else straight about the Bible and Jesus.I wouldn't mind this at all if it wasn't for the pseudo- christian front they shamelessly portray. Christians believe in miracles, the JS are biased atheists using Jesus to destroy Jesus. The movement is based in dishonesty and will affect the faith of no real christian.

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And this is a question I ask many Christians: how could it ever be proven to you that certain aspects of your belief are false?

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Too ambiguous.I bet we have some common ground here but you need to be specific.Let me ask you.What criteria is in place that you would conclude a miracle happened ?Scientific worldview always says they would consider a miracle then they proceed to establish a criteria that can never be met, which means they are lying. The Great Pyramid proves this.

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What does the Bible say about false prophets?

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Why would a source make a claim about the punishment of a false prophet then go on to make false prophecies ?Not ONE Biblical prophecy has ever failed to come to pass - not one.I've seen all the websites that claim failed prophecies - they all are riddled with error and bias.

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This revelation need not be incompatible with your Christian faith. There are several Christians on this forum who have no trouble sustaining their belief on faith alone and are also able to incorporate our 21st century understanding of Biblical history.

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You have redefined "christian" to be someone who passes muster with your modern atheist worldview. Straw man argument.The best 21st century scholarship has proven the N.T. and its veracity. The JS know this as their movement was created to oppose this scholarship in the name of "their" Jesus who never existed. Whatever sources the JS uses for their claims about Jesus I can take the same source and prove them wrong.This message has been edited by WILLOWTREE, 06-29-2004 04:18 PM

Did yo browse the tourism pictures on the link given, including Tyre Today? What "research" could you need to do now?Something you need to be aware of and wary of is a lot of creationist sources lie when they feel like it.

Well, I once heard about one concerning a city called Tyre... now where's the thread I read that in? Oh I'm sorry, can't find it any more.

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For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace. 1 Cor.14:33