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Author Topic:   Name The City
ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 3978 days)
Posts: 143
From: Anthem AZ, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 95 of 126 (476838)
07-27-2008 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
09-28-2003 11:10 PM


Another Option
Actually, I believe the best interpretation for the name of the city is actually Jerusalem!

Babylon is regarded as false religion and the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah saying let his blood be on our heads and our childrens heads and embraced false religion. In Matthew 24:1-35 the prophecies are to be fulfilled in the generation who heard them meaning that very generation culminating with the destruction of the temple. All the prophecies of Matthew 24:1-35 were fulfilled by the time the temple was destroyed. More on that later.

In Revelations 17 the harlot is Jerusalem which incidentally sits on 7 hills, and the beast is Rome with Nero who is the king of vs 10 who must continue a short time as Nero only reigned a couple of years. The 10 kings are the emperors of Rome who finally destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. I'm going mostly from Memory but will look up the actual arguments that are from David Chilton who was a genius in eschatology.

In my opinion Chilton's work is the definitive work in eschatology. He wrote a commentary on Revelations which can be read for free at a site called www.freebooks.com.


"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 09-28-2003 11:10 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by johnfolton, posted 07-27-2008 2:50 AM ReformedRob has responded

    
ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 3978 days)
Posts: 143
From: Anthem AZ, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 97 of 126 (476849)
07-27-2008 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by johnfolton
07-27-2008 2:50 AM


Re: Another Option
Just because the Romans destroyed Jerusalem doesnt mean that Christ cannot return and reign from her again! The passages in Isaiah will still be fulfilled.

Rev 17 says the beast with ten horns turns against the harlot and destroys her which is Roman sacking Jerusalem after surrounding her with armies twice fulfilling Matthew 24.

As well Jerusalem sits on seven hills, committed the greatest crime in history rejecting Jesus as the messiah and embraces false idolatrous religion and killed many of the prophets and so is drunk on their blood. All the woes of Matthew 23 were to be visited upon that generation (v 36) and the temple was to be left desolate (v 38).

The identity of Jerusalem as the harlot riding the beast which is Rome who destroys the harlot as Rome destroyed Jerusalem makes the most sense. Nothing about this says Christ cannot reign from Jerusalem again.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by johnfolton, posted 07-27-2008 2:50 AM johnfolton has not yet responded

    
ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 3978 days)
Posts: 143
From: Anthem AZ, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 98 of 126 (476874)
07-27-2008 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by johnfolton
07-27-2008 2:50 AM


Re: Another Option
John,

I find it interesting that you cited Isaiah starting with 1:26 but ignored v 21 which explicitly identifies Jerusalem as the Harlot:

"How the faithful City has become a Harlot, She who was once full of justice! Righteousness once lodged in her, But now murderers."

As well, Jeremiah identifies Jerusalem as the Harlot as well:

"For long ago I broke your yoke And tore off your bonds; But you said, “I will not serve!” For on every high hill And under every green tree You have lain down as a harlot. . . . You are a swift young camel entangling her ways, A wild donkey accustomed to the wilderness, That sniffs the wind in her passion. In the time of her heat who can turn her away? All who seek her will not become weary; In her month they will find her. . . . Your sword has devoured your prophets Like a destroying lion. O generation, hear the Word of the LoRD. Have I been a wilderness to Israel, Or a land of thick darkness? Why do My people say, “We are free to roam; We will come no more to Thee”? Can a virgin forget her ornaments, Or a Bride her attire? Yet My people have forgotten Me Days without number. How well you prepare your way To seek love! Therefore even the wicked women You have taught your ways. . . .God says, If a husband divorces his wife, And she goes from him And belongs to another man, Will he still return to her? Will not that land be completely polluted? But you are a harlot with many lovers; Yet you turn to Me, declares the LORD. Lift up your eyes to the bare heights and see; Where have you not been violated? By the roads you have sat for them Like an Arab in the desert, And you have polluted a land With your harlotry and with your wickedness. Therefore the showers have been withheld, And there has been no spring rain. Yet you had a harlot’s forehead; You refused to be ashamed." Jer. 2:20-24, 30-33; 3:1-3

Ezekiel in chapt 16 goes into graphic detail describing Jerusalem as a harlot and in chapt 23. It is very common for prophets in the Old Testament to describe Jerusalem as a Harlot and so in the case of Revelations the principal of letting scripture interpret scripture would make it more than likely that Jerusalem is the Harlot city who killed the prophets and was drunk on their blood and who rode on Rome the beast who later destroyed the Harlot just as Rome did in the first century.

I strongly suggest to all who are interested in eschatology like this to get David Chilton's commentary on Revelations: "Days of Vengeance" available for free on www.freebooks.com

Edited by ReformedRob, : forgot my signature


"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by johnfolton, posted 07-27-2008 2:50 AM johnfolton has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by johnfolton, posted 07-28-2008 12:26 AM ReformedRob has responded

    
ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 3978 days)
Posts: 143
From: Anthem AZ, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 99 of 126 (476875)
07-27-2008 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
09-28-2003 11:10 PM


A better interpretation IMHB
Buzsaw,

Thought you might enjoy my response to John #98 as to why it is much more likely the Harlot city is Jerusalem

Phileo

Rob


"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 09-28-2003 11:10 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 3978 days)
Posts: 143
From: Anthem AZ, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 101 of 126 (476955)
07-28-2008 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by johnfolton
07-28-2008 12:26 AM


Re: Another Option
There are many cases where scripture said cities would be destroyed and would never exist anymore but there are cities there now because the context is what the city represents spiritually not just the physical manifestation like Tyre and Edom. They were physically destroyed and never regained their former status even though there are modern cities there now. So the fact that Jerusalem has people living there is irrelevant just as it is irrelevant that Tyre has people living there again also; Tyre is no longer the glorious city state it was before it was destroyed. Jerusalem is the same. Jerusalem is obviously representative of Israel who was the harlot referred to in the OT passages I referenced in my previous post, who was dispersed throughout the world because they rejected the messiah and lost their position as the covenant people. The covenant then went out to the gentiles who then became Israel, replacing Jerusalem, and even when the Jews are grafted in again per Romans 11 they are not the sole covenant people but become partakers with the gentiles so they/Israel/Jerusalem never regain the former status fulfilling the passage in Revelations 18.

Edited by ReformedRob, : forgot signature


"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by johnfolton, posted 07-28-2008 12:26 AM johnfolton has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by johnfolton, posted 07-29-2008 1:24 AM ReformedRob has not yet responded

    
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