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Author Topic:   Belief Statements - Robinrohan
nator
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 53 of 99 (338136)
08-05-2006 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by robinrohan
08-04-2006 8:06 AM


Re: Thank you
quote:
Viewed objectively...

How does a person do that?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by robinrohan, posted 08-04-2006 8:06 AM robinrohan has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by robinrohan, posted 08-05-2006 6:38 PM nator has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 54 of 99 (338137)
08-05-2006 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Faith
08-04-2006 8:49 AM


Re: Thank you
quote:
Life is purposeless, so we make our own purposes and that way we're authentic, but we still need to render ourselves unconscious to tolerate it.

Maybe it's all that time spent hindered by an alcohol-befuddled brain that is the problem rather than the solution.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Faith, posted 08-04-2006 8:49 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by robinrohan, posted 08-05-2006 6:42 PM nator has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 55 of 99 (338138)
08-05-2006 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Chronos
08-04-2006 10:53 AM


quote:
I doubt that Robinrohan actually believes what he claims to. I've seen many of his posts and he strikes me as a fundamentalist Christian creationist who's taking everyone for a ride. That's just the impression that I get from his choice of words and overall attitude.

Me too.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Chronos, posted 08-04-2006 10:53 AM Chronos has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 60 of 99 (338147)
08-05-2006 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by robinrohan
08-05-2006 6:38 PM


Re: Thank you
quote:
All you have to do is think logically.

"Logical" and "objective" are not the same thing.

How does one come to the logical conclusion that, "all purposes are equal"?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by robinrohan, posted 08-05-2006 6:38 PM robinrohan has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by robinrohan, posted 08-05-2006 9:02 PM nator has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 64 of 99 (338165)
08-05-2006 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by robinrohan
08-05-2006 9:02 PM


Re: Thank you
"Logical" and "objective" are not the same thing.

quote:
Same thing.

Nope.

Any logic begins with a premise which is an assumption which may or may not be subjective.

How does one come to the logical conclusion that, "all purposes are equal"?

quote:
Since they are all subjective, they are all equal. One might as well prefer one color to another.

"Subjective" is not, by definition, "equal".

Show me the logical steps by which you came to your conclusion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by robinrohan, posted 08-05-2006 9:02 PM robinrohan has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by robinrohan, posted 08-05-2006 9:12 PM nator has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 69 of 99 (338171)
08-05-2006 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by robinrohan
08-05-2006 9:12 PM


Re: Thank you
Any logic begins with a premise which is an assumption which may or may not be subjective.

quote:
I'm talking about the logic, not the premises.

But all logic begins with premises, and those may or may not be subjective.

If you begin with subjectivity, it doesn't suddenly become "objective" once you apply the rules of logic.

"Subjective" is not, by definition, "equal".

quote:
It is in terms of being evidence of anything. If one's ideal is subjective, it's no good as evidence.

Show me the logical steps by which you came to your conclusion.

Your original statement was:

quote:
Viewed objectively, all purposes are equal

I, what you mean to say is, "Relying only on empirical evidence and logic, one can't say one purpose is better than another purpose", then I agree.

But you can't then say that there is no basis whatsoever for judging one basis as superior than any other, which is not true.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by robinrohan, posted 08-05-2006 9:12 PM robinrohan has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by robinrohan, posted 08-05-2006 9:29 PM nator has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 70 of 99 (338172)
08-05-2006 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by iano
08-05-2006 9:21 PM


Re: Windows to the soul indeed
You assume that everyone has as much trouble looking into their own eyes as you do, ian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by iano, posted 08-05-2006 9:21 PM iano has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by iano, posted 08-05-2006 9:28 PM nator has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 74 of 99 (338177)
08-05-2006 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by iano
08-05-2006 9:26 PM


Re: Windows to the soul indeed
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with me.

It's such a trajedy that you think that something is fundamentally wrong with you.

No wonder my picture bothers you so much.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by iano, posted 08-05-2006 9:26 PM iano has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 76 of 99 (338179)
08-05-2006 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by robinrohan
08-05-2006 9:29 PM


Re: Thank you
Relying only on empirical evidence and logic, one can't say one purpose is better than another purpose", then I agree.

quote:
Well, obviously that's what I meant.

No, it isn't obvious at all, nor do I think it's what you said. Maybe it's what you meant.

You said, in effect, "it is objectively true that all purposes are of the same value".

That is a very different thing from "can't be judged solely empirically".

I'll agree it can't be judged solely empirically. But I stop there. I don't then accept the conclusion that they're all the same, only that it can't be judged on this basis. Period.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by robinrohan, posted 08-05-2006 9:29 PM robinrohan has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by robinrohan, posted 08-06-2006 8:25 AM nator has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 78 of 99 (338181)
08-05-2006 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by iano
08-05-2006 9:28 PM


Re: Windows to the soul indeed
quote:
I assumed reflection on self whilst doing so.

Yes, of course.

I do not suffer from self-loathing or think myself fundamentally deficient as others seem to, so I can only presume that this is why I am not horribly disturbed by looking in the mirror.

quote:
You can assert that you do do if you like.

If I had a webcam, I could do a live broadcast of myself doing it.

quote:
But how do you know that you are doing that.

That's what my brain is telling me, though I could be wrong.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by iano, posted 08-05-2006 9:28 PM iano has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 08-05-2006 10:34 PM nator has responded
 Message 90 by iano, posted 08-07-2006 4:24 PM nator has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 81 of 99 (338202)
08-06-2006 6:42 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Faith
08-05-2006 10:34 PM


Re: Windows to the soul indeed
I do not suffer from self-loathing or think myself fundamentally deficient as others seem to, so I can only presume that this is why I am not horribly disturbed by looking in the mirror.

quote:
Schraf, this is such a misrepresentation and it's hard to believe you don't realize that and just enjoy mischaracterizing people.

I call it like I find it, Faith.

I'm not the only one who comes to this conclusion.

Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 08-05-2006 10:34 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Faith, posted 08-06-2006 10:25 AM nator has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 84 of 99 (338217)
08-06-2006 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Faith
08-06-2006 10:25 AM


Re: Windows to the soul indeed
quote:
It's a meanspirited mischaracterization no matter who says it.

It's not meanspitited.

It's an honest impression of iano's feelings about humanity and himself.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Faith, posted 08-06-2006 10:25 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Faith, posted 08-06-2006 10:52 AM nator has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 86 of 99 (338282)
08-06-2006 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Faith
08-06-2006 10:52 AM


Re: Windows to the soul indeed
quote:
Well then you are no judge of character.

Possibly, but then there are several people here who are terrible judges of character, because we each seem to have come to a similar conclusion.

Or, you could be ignoring or filtering out what is rather obvious to many others here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Faith, posted 08-06-2006 10:52 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 08-06-2006 8:15 PM nator has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 89 of 99 (338325)
08-07-2006 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by Faith
08-06-2006 8:15 PM


Re: Windows to the soul indeed
quote:
You are mistaking philosophical and Biblical positions for personal character.

Now you are simply equivocating over semantics.

...as if either one of you, in a different context, would separate your "personal character" and "philosophical position".

You go right ahead and believe what you like about ian's general attitude regarding himself and humanity, and I will do the same.

I take his words at face value. Maybe you should as well.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 08-06-2006 8:15 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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