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Author Topic:   Belief Statements - Lithodid-Man
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 5052 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 32 of 74 (338253)
08-06-2006 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
08-06-2006 12:33 PM


Whatever number of waves was needed to completely wipe ancient Phoenician Tyre off the planet has come and gone and done the deed. Whatever number of waves was needed to completely wipe ancient Phoenician Tyre off the planet has come and gone and done the deed.

And the same is true for every other ancient city state, nation and empire in the world. Rome, Athens, Sparta, Carthage, Pharonic Egypt, the Aztecs, the Incas and so many more - they've all been and gone.

BFHD.

All that's physically left of any of them is ruins.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 08-06-2006 12:33 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Faith, posted 08-06-2006 2:10 PM MangyTiger has not yet responded

  
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 5052 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 34 of 74 (338259)
08-06-2006 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Lithodid-Man
08-05-2006 4:14 AM


Re: No doubt the Tyre prophecy was fulfilled
I haven't got Google Earth (one of the untold number of things on my 'to do' list!), so maybe you can answer a quick question.

Can you get any idea of the size of this rock from Google Earth?

It's not clear to me if we're talking about a rock that's the size of a football pitch or a couple of acres or a square mile or what.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Lithodid-Man, posted 08-05-2006 4:14 AM Lithodid-Man has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by jar, posted 08-06-2006 3:24 PM MangyTiger has responded

  
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 5052 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 36 of 74 (338290)
08-06-2006 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by jar
08-06-2006 3:24 PM


Re: No doubt the Tyre prophecy was fulfilled
Thanks jar.


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This message is a reply to:
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MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 5052 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 49 of 74 (338452)
08-07-2006 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by randman
08-07-2006 7:29 PM


Re: Hmmm...
Well in Message 22 Faith seems to find this source convincing. It says (and Faith herself quotes this):

From Arrian's descriptions it is very clear that Alexander did not level the island fortress, in fact, he had Tyre rebuilt. Tyre remained an important trading and manufacturing center that was fought over by Alexander's immediate successors, the Ptolemies and the Seleucids.25

25 Patricia Bikai, Heritage of Tyre, p. 61.

This is a compelling reason to think Alexander didn't destroy the city.

Alexander laid siege to Tyre in 332 B.C.

There was another siege of Tyre - lasting over a year - starting in 314 B.C. during the Third Diadoch War.

If you want to believe that a city was leveled to the bed rock and was rebuilt within 18 years to the point where it could withstand a year long siege that's up to you. Personally I think it's an asinine idea.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by randman, posted 08-07-2006 7:29 PM randman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by randman, posted 08-08-2006 12:26 PM MangyTiger has responded
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 Message 58 by Quetzal, posted 08-08-2006 2:00 PM MangyTiger has not yet responded

  
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 5052 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 64 of 74 (338652)
08-08-2006 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by randman
08-08-2006 12:26 PM


Re: Hmmm...
Mangy, did Alexander remove the former rulers and most of the former occupants or not?

Same with Nebi, it seems. Apparently, according to some here (conflicting accounts and since some like jar won't back up his account, who knows?), Nebi or someone made Tyre a Persian colony.

Making a kingdom a colony certainly suffices to destroying the former kingdom.

Holy galloping goalposts randman!

According to the site search function you have posted 9 messages prior to the one I am replying to:

  1. Message 38

    Actually, I think the old fortress and city of Tyre was on that rock and did get destroyed. Of course, there is a city of Tyre, but my recollection from history is that the rocky area was where the king and everyone took refufe (city walls) and for a long time no one could penetrate the fortress but that someone came up with bright idea of building a land bridge out to it, and eventually conquered it so thoroughly, that it never came back.

  2. Message 39

    Where's your evidence Alexander the Great didn't level it?

  3. Message 41

    So you have no evidence for your opinion? Nothing?

    Please substantiate your claim or retract it (as you guys are wont to say).


  4. Message 43

    Please substantiate your claims jar according to the rules. You suggested Alexander the Great did not really destroy Tyre. You offer no qualifications or elaboration, and I am calling your bluff.
    Back it up or retract it.

    The accounts I have read are that the mainland of Tyre was first laid waste as it was used to help build the land-bridge, so much as that in some places it was scraped down to the rock as the Macedonians searched for material to load into the sea to fill it.

    Then, when the fortress of Tyre fell, Alexander's army trampled it, killing thousands and selling thousands into slavery, and that the Pheonecian empire never recovered.

    But you made your claim first. Please back it up, per the rules, or retract it.


  5. Message 45

    Alexander the Great did topple Tyre, defeated it, wiped parts of clean down the rock.

  6. Message 47

    Most accounts I have read, just so you know, are that Alexander laid Tyre to waste and destroyed the Phoenician empire once and for all, pretty much just as the Bible predicted.

  7. Message 48

    Clearly, I think the prophecy was fulfilled. Tyre was conquered, but it took Alexander the Great and not just Nebi to cause the full, massive destruction, scraping down the rock in places, etc,....

  8. Message 53

    Nothing relevant

  9. Message 55

    Nothing relevant

Ever since you've joined the thread you've either been adamantly asserting that Alexander razed Tyre to the ground (or rock to be more precise) or asking for evidence he didn't.

Now when evidence is offered you're suddenly redefining what 'destroying a kingdom' means?

Did you think we wouldn't notice?


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by randman, posted 08-08-2006 12:26 PM randman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by randman, posted 08-09-2006 12:40 AM MangyTiger has responded

  
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 5052 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 66 of 74 (338758)
08-09-2006 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by randman
08-09-2006 12:40 AM


Re: Hmmm...
I asked for some substantiation and got next to nothing

So the fact that 18 years after the siege of Alexander there was a city capable of withstanding another siege which lasted over a year doesn't make you think that maybe Alexander didn't destroy Tyre?

Several people also pointed you at the history of Alexander written by Flavius Arrianus which - as a source Faith provided explicitly says - makes it clear Alexander didn't destroy Tyre.

apparently destroyed mainland Tyre

So now it's just the mainland part of Tyre that was destroyed and not the island?


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by randman, posted 08-09-2006 12:40 AM randman has not yet responded

  
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