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Author Topic:   Belief Statements - Lithodid-Man
ringo
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Posts: 18826
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 27 of 74 (338214)
08-06-2006 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Faith
08-05-2006 8:24 PM


Faith writes:

It then goes on to detail Nebuchadnezzar's attack, but go back and pause at the line, "Will cause many nations to come up against you as the sea causes his waves to come up."

This is not talking about one nation but a series of nations.

That weakens your case.

If you're talking about waves of nations attacking Tyre, you can't arbitrarily stop the waves at a point where Tyre was destroyed. Even King Canute couldn't do that.

If the waves keep coming and Tyre rises up out of them again, the prophecy doesn't have any impact.

Ezekiel strongly implies a "final solution to the Tyre problem". That prophecy has not been fulfilled.


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 Message 26 by Faith, posted 08-05-2006 8:24 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 18826
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 29 of 74 (338225)
08-06-2006 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Faith
08-06-2006 10:53 AM


Faith writes:

Tyre no longer exists.

But it does.

Don't ignore my point: The wave imagery in Ezekiel does not have a time limit.

For the prophecy to be fulfilled, an instantaneous destruction of Tyre is not sufficient. It has to stay destroyed. There are no "rules" about it being continuously occupied by the same culture.

Fact: Tyre exists.

Fact: Tyre is still a threat to Israel.


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 Message 30 by Faith, posted 08-06-2006 12:33 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18826
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 31 of 74 (338238)
08-06-2006 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
08-06-2006 12:33 PM


Faith writes:

Whatever number of waves was needed to completely wipe ancient Phoenician Tyre off the planet has come and gone and done the deed.

Nonsense. It's still there.

You're reading prophecy as, "Not fulfilled yet... not fulfilled yet... not fulfilled yet.... Now! It's fulfilled! Close the book before anything changes!"

Like the waves, you can't stop history wherever you want. Would you stop the story of Jesus at the crucifixion and ignore everything that happened after?


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ringo
Member
Posts: 18826
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 59 of 74 (338551)
08-08-2006 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by randman
08-08-2006 12:26 PM


Re: Hmmm...
randman writes:

Making a kingdom a colony certainly suffices to destroying the former kingdom.

Quite the contrary.

Destroying the kingship of a city-state only means a change in administration - it doesn't mean destruction of the city-state.

One of the main reasons for making colonies is to obtain their resources. Destroying the infrastructure, population, etc. would make the colony less valuable.

Another reason for making colonies is for their strategic position. It has already been pointed out that destroying the fortifications of Tyre would have lessened its strategic value.

Destruction of the city would have been counter-productive.


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ringo
Member
Posts: 18826
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 61 of 74 (338558)
08-08-2006 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by randman
08-08-2006 2:35 PM


Re: Hmmm...
randman writes:

It it was a kingdom and now is not, then the kingdom itself is destroyed regardless of whether the area was rendered permanently inhabitable or whatever.

By that standard, the United States were "destroyed" when they ceased to be part of the British monarchy.


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ringo
Member
Posts: 18826
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 63 of 74 (338574)
08-08-2006 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Jazzns
08-08-2006 2:57 PM


Re: Hmmm...
jazzns writes:

Unless of course we abandon literalism.

It rememds me a lot of horoscopes:

"You will suffer a serious setback."

"It's true! I hit every red light on the way to work today!"


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