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Author Topic:   jar - On Christianity
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 307 (344756)
08-29-2006 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by ringo
08-29-2006 2:26 PM


Biblical tone
He should have used more smilies when He wrote the Bible.

Like this?

"There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.":D

Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by ringo, posted 08-29-2006 2:26 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by ringo, posted 08-29-2006 2:48 PM robinrohan has replied

ringo
Member
Posts: 19784
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 77 of 307 (344760)
08-29-2006 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by robinrohan
08-29-2006 2:35 PM


Re: Biblical tone
robinrohan writes:

Like this?

"There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.":D

Yes, if that's the point you're trying to make.

Otherwise, some bozo would think you meant literal wailing and gnashing of teeth. It's too bad that some people can't recognize humour unless it has big neon lights flashing "HUMOUR ---->".

Fewer people would be confused about he Bible if Percy had written the software.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by robinrohan, posted 08-29-2006 2:35 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by robinrohan, posted 08-29-2006 3:37 PM ringo has not replied

jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 78 of 307 (344768)
08-29-2006 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by kuresu
08-29-2006 1:56 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
Well Jesus seems like a fun guy to be around. I mean come on, He knew Peter would fail, scared the shit out of him, but He also was there to help. Peter was safe even if Peter didn't know it.

But that is not to say that Christianity as I see it is easy. I don't see all the copouts, benefits and "get out of hell free cards" that many Christians seem to think exist. You don't get to blame problems on some Fall, or claim the "devil made you do it" or know that you are saved just cause you "believe". You also have to try to live the life.

But GOD knows we are humans just as Jesus knew that Peter would fail, or Thomas would doubt or that folk would worry if there was enough Low Country Boil to feed all the guests. Jesus didn't punish Peter for failing to walk on water, He was probably pleased and surprised Peter got as far as he did. He held Peter up, led him back to the boat and calmed the winds.

GOD is like that. Like a parent watching a child when the training wheels first come off, GOD knows we will likely fail, and GOD will be there to help us up when we fall over, get us back on the bike and watch us try again. One day we might even get the hang of it and that taste of freedom when you take your first ride and the wind is blowing in your face and your hair is flying and you are out of sight of the house and you can go anywhere, is something you will always cherish. And whether you know it or not, a parent is watching through the curtains, maybe even a tear of joy in the old mans eye.

The otherside of Christianity as I see it is that just like learning to ride the bike, YOU have to do it. There are NO training wheels like the Fall or Satan or Knowledge that YOU are Saved to hold you up.

GOD sent us the message that we all start out saved. Atheist, Agnostic, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Taoist, Satanist, Wiccan, Buddhist, or Anamist, all start even. When you die though you will be judged. And you will be judged individually, uniquely, against yourself. Did you try to do what is right and not do what is wrong?

You won't be able to say that "The world is filled with sin" or "We are all Fallen" or "The Sins of Adam" or even "I'm a Christian". None of those will carry any weight. The judgement will be on what you did and what you might have done, and the Judge will have perfect knowledge of both.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by kuresu, posted 08-29-2006 1:56 PM kuresu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by GDR, posted 08-29-2006 3:57 PM jar has replied
 Message 84 by robinrohan, posted 08-29-2006 4:49 PM jar has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 307 (344769)
08-29-2006 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by ringo
08-29-2006 2:48 PM


Re: Biblical tone
Otherwise, some bozo would think you meant literal wailing and gnashing of teeth. It's too bad that some people can't recognize humour unless it has big neon lights flashing "HUMOUR ---->".

I hear that.

"Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." :D

Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by ringo, posted 08-29-2006 2:48 PM ringo has not replied

GDR
Member (Idle past 275 days)
Posts: 5410
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 80 of 307 (344775)
08-29-2006 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by jar
08-29-2006 3:34 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
jar writes:

When you die though you will be judged. And you will be judged individually, uniquely, against yourself. Did you try to do what is right and not do what is wrong?

I would agree that there is absolute right and absolute wrong. The trouble is only God knows what those absolutes are. For that reason alone I have trouble putting the emphasis on what we do, or even try to do.

If we can't be sure of what is right or wrong then it stands to reason that there must be something deeper that determines our future in the next life.

As you said earlier the Christian message is about love. I would suggest that it is love that determines our future. I agree that we should love ourselves to the degree that we are grateful to God for our existence but the love that God is concerned with is how we love others.

Greater love has no man than he lay down his life for his friends. In order to do that you are required to love others more than yourself.

To put it another way; it is my belief that the basis for our deciding what is right and wrong, (and whether we choose what we believe to be right as opposed to what is best for ourselves), is the gift of love which God has given to us.


Everybody is entitled to my opinion. :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 3:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 4:02 PM GDR has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 81 of 307 (344776)
08-29-2006 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by GDR
08-29-2006 3:57 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
I would agree that there is absolute right and absolute wrong.

I wouldn't. I don't think there is any such thing.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by GDR, posted 08-29-2006 3:57 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by GDR, posted 08-29-2006 4:24 PM jar has replied

GDR
Member (Idle past 275 days)
Posts: 5410
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 82 of 307 (344789)
08-29-2006 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by jar
08-29-2006 4:02 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
jar writes:

When you die though you will be judged. And you will be judged individually, uniquely, against yourself. Did you try to do what is right and not do what is wrong?

GDR writes:

I would agree that there is absolute right and absolute wrong. The trouble is only God knows what those absolutes are. For that reason alone I have trouble putting the emphasis on what we do, or even try to do.

jar writes:

I wouldn't. I don't think there is any such thing.

Well if God doesn't decide what is right and wrong then who does?

jar writes:

When you die though you will be judged. And you will be judged individually, uniquely, against yourself. Did you try to do what is right and not do what is wrong?

jar writes:

The judgement will be on what you did and what you might have done, and the Judge will have perfect knowledge of both.

OK let's assume that there is no absolute right and wrong then it becomes, IMHO, even more obvious that the standard can't be based on our ability to choose right and wrong, or what we have done. I still contend that the basis of our relationship with God is love and that is how the nature of our next life is determined. I stand by my previous post.


Everybody is entitled to my opinion. :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 4:02 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 4:38 PM GDR has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 83 of 307 (344792)
08-29-2006 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by GDR
08-29-2006 4:24 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
Well if God doesn't decide what is right and wrong then who does?

I think GOD does judge what is right and wrong, just that there is no absolute. GOD will judge the individual individually. He knows that we will always be working with incomplete information, making snap judgements, and that we will often get it wrong or wish on later though we had done differently. He will know all of that.

GOD will judge us on what we did and what our own unique capabilities were. But he will judge you against YOU and me against ME.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by GDR, posted 08-29-2006 4:24 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by robinrohan, posted 08-29-2006 5:14 PM jar has replied
 Message 94 by GDR, posted 08-29-2006 5:33 PM jar has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 307 (344795)
08-29-2006 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by jar
08-29-2006 3:34 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
GOD sent us the message that we all start out saved. Atheist, Agnostic, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Taoist, Satanist, Wiccan, Buddhist, or Anamist, all start even. When you die though you will be judged. And you will be judged individually, uniquely, against yourself. Did you try to do what is right and not do what is wrong?

How does Jesus Christ fit into your version of Christianity? What's his function?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 3:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 4:51 PM robinrohan has not replied

jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 85 of 307 (344796)
08-29-2006 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by robinrohan
08-29-2006 4:49 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
How does Jesus Christ fit into your version of Christianity? What's his function?

Teacher while here on earth. Judge later.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by robinrohan, posted 08-29-2006 4:49 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by ringo, posted 08-29-2006 5:07 PM jar has replied

ringo
Member
Posts: 19784
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 86 of 307 (344802)
08-29-2006 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by jar
08-29-2006 4:51 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
jar writes:

Teacher while here on earth. Judge later.

I tend to think of it as a "judge-in-training" while here on earth, too - not necessarily that He needed to learn anything, but He needed to make His street-rep.

He needed to start at the bottom to establish his creds. He wasn't just the Boss's Son. He was one of us.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 4:51 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by robinrohan, posted 08-29-2006 5:16 PM ringo has replied
 Message 89 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 5:20 PM ringo has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 307 (344804)
08-29-2006 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by jar
08-29-2006 4:38 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
I think GOD does judge what is right and wrong, just that there is no absolute

This makes no sense unless you are claiming that God is just giving his subjective opinion and that He might very well be wrong.

Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 4:38 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 5:28 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 307 (344805)
08-29-2006 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by ringo
08-29-2006 5:07 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
He needed to start at the bottom to establish his creds.

I guess that's the point of the crucifixion rather than just dying of a heart attack or something.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by ringo, posted 08-29-2006 5:07 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by ringo, posted 08-29-2006 5:22 PM robinrohan has not replied

jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 89 of 307 (344806)
08-29-2006 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by ringo
08-29-2006 5:07 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
I think that is important and also to understand that while He was here on earth He really was human. He had no powers that every other human doesn't have. The difference was that he showed us by example what a human really can be, what really is possible.

I see everything as GOD teaching us a lesson. Here is HUMAN. Here is LOVING. Here is ANGER. Here is TRUST. Here is VISION. Here is FAITH. Here is LIFE.

Now that you good folk see what can be done, try to do it. It's likely you will fail, but if you do, get up, dust yourself off and try again.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by ringo, posted 08-29-2006 5:07 PM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by robinrohan, posted 08-29-2006 5:24 PM jar has replied
 Message 98 by GDR, posted 08-29-2006 5:40 PM jar has replied

ringo
Member
Posts: 19784
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 90 of 307 (344808)
08-29-2006 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by robinrohan
08-29-2006 5:16 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
robinrohan writes:

He needed to start at the bottom to establish his creds.

I guess that's the point of the crucifixion rather than just dying of a heart attack or something.

No, I don't think there's any particular "point" to the crucifixion, except that it makes a dramtic climax for the movie. Jesus would have been just as much "one of us" if He had died of old age like George Burns or Nelson Mandela.


Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
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