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Author Topic:   Belief Statement - jar
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2576 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 30 of 300 (323858)
06-20-2006 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Brian
06-20-2006 12:23 PM


Re: Agnostic Xian?
People who have went through a personal religious experience, and
again I have met many, do not have your doubts.

Where did Jar express doubt about God? You seem to just be picking a fight for no reason here.

I happen to agree with a lot of Jar's philosophy and there may be even others on this forum such as Arach that do too. Just because we don't have a "Church of the Something" where there is some kind of formal doctrine that we adhere to does not mean that our subjective interpretation of Christianity is any more valid than the Baptists, Methodists, Penecostals, etc.

Are you the arbitar of what can be considered a valid belief system?


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 12:23 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 1:01 PM Jazzns has responded

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2576 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 39 of 300 (323904)
06-20-2006 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Brian
06-20-2006 1:01 PM


Christianity is....?
When he said: "Neither of us knows, both of us believe."

How is that automatically an affirmation of doubt?

But, the definitions of these faiths are incompatible. Jar may well be a Xian, but his flavour of Christianity is incompatible with all known definitions. Perhaps Jar's definition is correct and every other 1500 plus denominations of Xianity are mistaken.

The 1500+ denominations of Christianity also believe that the other 1499+ denominations of Christianity are somehow wrong with regard to some or another subjective detail of the religion. All the specifics you are bringing up I could easily do from another perspective. From the penecostal perspective I could come and say that Jar's belief is not compatable with Christianity because he makes no mention of his infilling of the holy spirit evidenced by speaking in tongues. The only thing that is differet with you is that you are taking the subjective points that happen to be major threads in the some of the mainstream formal Christian denominations. Certainly some flavors of Methodists might disagree that there is only one right way to God. Other may have varying flavors of what is considered "saved" or not saved. Jar didn't mention his baptism. According to another major thread of most mainstream formal Christian denominations, if he is not born again of water then he is not saved.

Where do you draw the line? You seem to be putting forth a sophisticated "no true Christian" type of argument.


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 1:01 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 1:50 PM Jazzns has not yet responded
 Message 43 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 2:02 PM Jazzns has not yet responded
 Message 46 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 2:37 PM Jazzns has responded

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2576 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 40 of 300 (323906)
06-20-2006 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Brian
06-20-2006 1:09 PM


Christianity is .....a denomination?
In a denomination with a membership of one?

To be a Christian you MUST be a member of a denomination? What about non-denominational yet still formal institutions? Can you be a Christian and not go to church at all?


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 1:09 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 1:52 PM Jazzns has responded

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2576 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 44 of 300 (323923)
06-20-2006 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Brian
06-20-2006 1:52 PM


Re: Christianity is .....a denomination?
Do you know what a question mark means?

Why must you be condescending? Argumentative I can understand but this is uncalled for.

I asked him a question, I didn't make a statement.

The question implied that a "denomination of one" is somehow indicative of the validity of Jar's beliefs. I know you asked a question. My follow up should then have taken you on the course of why asking such a question was even important. Did you not get that? Was I not clear enough?


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 1:52 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 2:23 PM Jazzns has responded

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2576 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 49 of 300 (323965)
06-20-2006 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Brian
06-20-2006 2:23 PM


Re: Christianity is .....a denomination?
The question was to enquire as to how many other's share Jar's beliefs. For all I know it may be a recognised branch of Christianity that I haven't heard of.

Which leads exactly to my follow up questions for you which in a nutshell were asking why that matters.

You are making a statement about the validity of his position and also asking about the relative frequency of people who share his beliefs. Were those two points really unrelated?

Please clarify because it seems as though you are retreating from a part of your position.


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 2:23 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 4:36 PM Jazzns has responded

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2576 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 50 of 300 (323972)
06-20-2006 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Brian
06-20-2006 2:37 PM


Re: Valid christian teaching?
Forgive me if I missed it. Where did Jar deny the divinity of Jesus? Honestly I may have missed it. That certainly would be a minority position to hold and still be called a Christian. I still think though it could potentially be valid as long as that person thought of Christianity as being a follower of the principles of Christ.

The point for me is simply who am I to judge another person's belief. That is maybe just part of my personality. I may personally consider their belief to be strange, wrong, or even offensive but I certainly don't feel I have the right as a human being to say that they aren't what they claim.


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 2:37 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 4:42 PM Jazzns has responded
 Message 53 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 4:53 PM Jazzns has not yet responded

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2576 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 67 of 300 (324046)
06-20-2006 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Brian
06-20-2006 4:36 PM


Re: Christianity is .....a denomination?
Right, and I am merely interested in why that matters to this discussion.


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 4:36 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Brian, posted 06-21-2006 4:47 AM Jazzns has not yet responded

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2576 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 68 of 300 (324050)
06-20-2006 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Brian
06-20-2006 4:42 PM


Re: Valid christian teaching?
I misunderstood, sorry.

Do you know of any branches of Christianity that promote a faith that denies Jesus' divinity as a valid path to God?

Certainly a number of the "salvation by works" types of Christians do believe that a non-Christian can get into heaven. I don't know much about the detailed history of the Methodists but I have heard a number of Methodist ministers and churchgoers display that sentiment.

It certainly seems that it is not unheard of if possibly the minority view within Christianity.


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 4:42 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Brian, posted 06-21-2006 5:26 AM Jazzns has not yet responded

  
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