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Administrator (Idle past 2330 days) Posts: 2073 From: The Universe Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Belief Statement - jar | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Remember that it is a two part command, love others as you love yourself. That is obviously not a two-part command but a command based on a given, that we all love ourselves. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I believe that to love yourself, you first have to know that you are not born with damned stamped on your forehead, that you are not condemned ... Seems to me it's far from love to tell yourself lies to make yourself feel better in the face of a genuine danger.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The way everyone loves him/herself ought to be pretty obvious. We all look for comfort and try to avoid pain, we feel miserable when our egos are hurt etc. Pretty ordinary obvious stuff I would think.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Now if you define love as "good will," it makes more sense to me. We wish ourselves well; in the same way, we should wish others well. EXACTLY.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Why can't you get it? I'm a realist. You've got some kind of elaborate denial of reality going on there. Going to bite you in the end. Can't see how that's loving yourself.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
(Incidentally, the rule seems to me impossible to carry out). Good observation. Being "but flesh" it is beyond us. But it's not impossible for Christ. Attaching ourselves to Him makes it possible to fulfill all His commands, at first by His own virtues imputed to us, and hopefully more and more in reality as we stick with Him.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I love it. Brian has been right on target for days now arguing the truths of Biblical Christianity against Catholic Scientist and jar and GDR -- and I forget if there were any other of the liberal persuasion he's answered. Doing a terrific job, although he himself
rejects and apparently hates it all with a passion. I've been very impressed. How odd to be in the position of agreeing with Brian about anything whatever.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
But these people still BELIEVED that they were following Christ, they just didn;t do it properly. There is no mention here that EVERYONE who is nice to others are the ones to be saved? ...All this be nicey nice to others and you are saved really begs the question of why was Jesus even born? If Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, and all other people on earth can be saved through being a nice person, then there is no point in Jesus.
Making all the right points here. Fun to read.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I agree completely with your assessment of the liberal Christians. I continue to be astonished at my agreement with you. Please, carry on.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It is the height of arrogance for one who isn't willing to practice a religion to tell others how they are doing it wrong. You have created a cartoon Christianity in your mind and decided no one is living up to it. Well, here I must defend my arch-enemy Brian again. This is no cartoon. He's got it right. He's said very little in this argument that a traditionalist can't wholeheartedly "amen." He knows what the traditionalist churches preach, and there are many of us out here; it's not like he is this lone arrogant judge, he's arguing from what he knows. He knows it academically rather than from faith, but there is no doubt that he knows it.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Et tu Brute? ???
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It must be a real head-wrecker to go around doing the prescribed good things whilst all the while remaining unknowing that one is doing the prescribed good things in order that one can be surprised that one did the prescribed good things come the day of the sheep and goats. I don't know whether to say or I guess I'll say both.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I read a lot, maybe even all, of C.S. Lewis when I was in the process of becoming a Christian, and seeing quotes from him now surprises me. Even then I could identify a tinge of liberalness in his writings but now that I'm a solid Calvinist Protestant he sounds extremely liberal. I can't see any other meaning to the sacrifice of the crucifixion than to pay for our sins. It's what the entire Bible is about really.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Could you give me the Biblical references that you would use to make your point that the crucifixion is about payment for sins. quote: Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : added bolding Edited by Faith, : Improved bolding plus last three scripture verses
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Lewis says that Christ's death has put us right with God. The only thing that I can think of that needed to be put right was sin in our lives. That however is not the same thing as saying that Christ's death was payment for our sins. Well, considering that His death is compared to the sacrifices throughout the Old Testament, which is the background for the Letter to the Hebrews, a comparison in which the efficacy of the blood of beasts is compared with the blood of Christ; and considering such terminology as "propitiation" and "sacrifice" and "Lamb of God" and so on, I would think that "putting us right with God" pretty clearly could only happen through a sacrifice in which sins are BORNE by the sacrifice iteself. Sure implies "payment" to me, the sacrifice in the place of the sinner. Funny I hadn't realized how mealymouthed Lewis can be. Must have something to do with the liberal (it means Bible-compromising basically) trends in the Anglican/Episcopal church.
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