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| Author | Topic: Why Doesn't the Moon Have Life? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Chiroptera Member  Posts: 6698 From: Oklahoma Joined: Member Rating: 5.9 |
quote: If by spontaneously you mean according to the laws of physics and chemistry operating in the environment similar to that of the early earth, then sure. But we would expect this to have happened in places where the conditions were similar to that of the early earth. - quote: No, life has never been observed where we've so far looked in our corner of the universe. Basically in our Solar System. That's a pretty small fraction of the entire universe. Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine
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Dr Adequate Member  Posts: 16097 Joined: |
Certainly the fact that abiogenesis has taken place on one planet suggests that life should be found on Earthlike planets of other solar systems if we were able to go and look for it. But we aren't able to go and look for it. In the same way, tectonic plate theory tells me that if we dug a tunnel to the earth's core, it would be very hot. But the fact that no-one has made this observation is not evidence against the tectonic plate theory, but a consequence of our inability to sink a mineshaft several thousand miles deep. Was that too hard to understand? I can hardly see how anything could be simpler. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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RAZD Member  Posts: 19981 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: Member Rating: 4.0 |
What theory has been invalidated by the failure to observe life on (a) the moon (to keep this vaguely on topic) and (b) elsewhere? Just curious ... Enjoy. ps -- type [qs]quote boxes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:
compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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jjsemsch Member (Idle past 3972 days) Posts: 60 Joined: |
True but you can’t have one with out the other. If one were to be disproven the other would be disproven as well.
Yes actually I took 2 physics and 2 chemistry courses in high school along with several physics and chemistry courses in college, where I earned a BS in Aerospace Engineering. Please, it’s not necessary to insult my intelligence to prove your point. That’s a logical fallacy known as argument ad hominem. That’s like saying you’re wrong because you smell bad. ;)
I didn’t claim that, but to date there is no evidence to prove otherwise. Are you saying that even though there is no evidence to support your belief, that there is life elsewhere in the universe? For lack of a better word are you saying you have “faith†in aliens?
Actually He did, but not because I say He did. He says He did in His word, the Bible. You should check it out sometime. It's a pretty good book and it's the all time best seller.
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JonF Member Posts: 5023 Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
Nope. Evolution with life originating by Divine poofing works fine (that's the belief of some theistic evolutonists).
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Asgara Member (Idle past 499 days)  Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
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Taz Member (Idle past 1487 days)  Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Let me repeat myself. Abiogenesis and evolution are two entirely different disciplines. Even if god "poofed" life into existence, evolution would not be disproven, and vice versa.
Noone is insulting your intelligence. I only responded to what you wrote. You wanted to make a cosmic judgement on the existence of life based on the 4 measley datapoints we have (Earth, moon, mars, and venus). I don't know about you, but to me this is arrogance beyond imagination.
Since when did I say such thing? Again, you want to judge the whole universe based on the 4 datapoints we've looked at with 1 positive result? If I were you, I'd hold out on judgement until at least we get to explore other regions of the universe first. There's this thing called "I don't know" that I tend to use everytime I don't have enough data to make a call either way. You should try it sometimes... makes you look less arrogant.
I've read the bible from cover to cover more times than I can count. I used to believe in the literal genesis account. I used to hold signs in protest of fags and other "sinners". My personal library has at least 15 or so bibles that I've collected over the years. So what? Notice that this is a science forums section of the board and not faith and belief. If you don't have anything beside the bible to contribute, then go away. Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
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jjsemsch Member (Idle past 3972 days) Posts: 60 Joined: |
You’re right this may be an entirely new topic in itself. In this particular example the theory is that life accidentally came from non-life here on Earth. If that were true, it would be logically consistent to believe that life came from non-life elsewhere. The evidence to date shows that there is no life elsewhere in the universe. You’ll have to forgive me for going off topic, but another example of the evidence not changing the theory is transitional forms. Charles Darwin believed that simpler life forms evolved into more complex life forms gradually over millions of years. He also believed that the fossil record would show this. To date there are only a handful of disputed transitional forms and every day more of those are shown to either be extinct species or hoaxes. Mainstream science looking at this evidence would never say perhaps evolution is false. Instead the mechanism for evolutionary theory becomes punctuated equilibrium not because of evidence, but because of a lack of evidence. Another off topic example is Tyrannosaurus Rex soft tissue. Edited by AdminNosy, : Topic warning
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mark24 Member (Idle past 3391 days)  Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Nonsense. Cladistics & phylogeny works because transitional forms exist.
More & more transitional forms are found yearly. Darwin would not have been disappointed. Mark Edited by mark24, : No reason given.
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crashfrog Inactive Member |
So far, no. (We've hardly looked.) Another way to look at it, though, is that life has been found on 100% of all the Earth-like planets we've ever discovered. Furthermore, potentially spooky evidence of life on other planets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow_signal I'm just saying, there's hardly any reason to rule out life anywhere else in the universe, when we've hardly been anywhere in the universe to look.
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ringo Member  Posts: 16836 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
A better word than "accidentally" might be "inevitably" - or at least "probably".
Logic produces conclusions, not beliefs. In the science threads, one should choose one's words carefully. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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RAZD Member Posts: 19981 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: Member Rating: 4.0 |
This is the theory of abiogenesis (not evolution), and you are correct that it would be logically consistent to consider that life would also begin by similar processes on other planets where the conditions are favorable. The evidence to date shows (1) we don't know what those favorable conditions were for earth (so it is difficult to compare earth to other planets) and (b) that what we know of other planets is not enough to rule out life on them yet. Thus the evidence is at best inconclusive and at worst very incomplete, and as such does not invalidate the theory of life forming by natural means on planets with even remotely similar conditions to what existed on an early earth.
That is the theory of evolution, not abiogenesis, and it is off-topic. I'll be happy to discuss how this also does not invalidate the theory on MACROevolution vs MICROevolution - what is it? (which is about the definitions of micro and macro evolution and where they fit in the theory of evolution). Pay particular attention to Message 18 and Message 38 on that thread. Also see Plausible Evolutionary Chains for Educational Use for some examples of the evidence you think doesn't exist.
This has been discussed on another thread already, and your argument from incredulity notwithstanding, it discusses why they found what they found. See Blood in dino bones (closed, but could be re-openned to continue this discussion, note that "simple" and "whisper" are the same person, and I trust you don't follow his example ...) and T. rex thigh reveals chicken family ties which has some new information from this find (and that shows how limited it was). BUT This "evidence" you have presented in your post also does not invalidate any theory. To invalidate a theory you have to provide evidence that contradicts it: this has not been done by your "evidence" (unlike the evidence for say an old earth, that invalidates the concept for a young earth ... but that too is off topic and would be better discussed on Age Correlations and an Old Earth: Version 1 No 3 (formerly Part III) where sufficient evidence is provided to invalidate that concept). Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16097 Joined: |
Tazmanian Devil did not say that there was life elewhere in the universe or that he believed in aliens. His point, and mine, and everyone else's, was that you can't pretend that absence of evidence for life elsewhere is the same thing as evidence of absence of life elsewhere, because we haven't looked elsewhere. Evidence of absence would, as you point out, suggest a remarkable and peculiar origin of Earthly life. But you don't have any such evidence. --- Look at it this way. Suppose I stood your argument on its head, and said: "If abiogenesis is natural, we should expect lots of other solar systems to have life. No-one has ever produced any evidence of a solar system without life. This confirms my ideas about abiogenesis." Would you be able to see the fallacy then? Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16097 Joined: |
Surely an Intelligent Designer wouldn't bother making all those other stars, whole galaxies worth, unless they served some purpose? So shouldn't there be life in other solar systems?
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Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16097 Joined: |
Perhaps I should explain that when new evidence supports the prevalent theory, it is not necessary to alter the theory. In this particular case, of extraterrestrial life, there hasn't been any new evidence. This makes it a totally different case from (for example) the multitude of supporting evidence which has come from the fossil record (incidentally, I notice that someone has been telling you a lot of silly lies on this subject); and this is different again from the imaginary evidence contradicting evolution which you guys have been praying for for the last 150 years. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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