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Author Topic:   Biogenesis
PaulK
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Joined: 01-10-2003
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Message 8 of 312 (473018)
06-26-2008 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by AlphaOmegakid
06-25-2008 8:17 AM


I suspect that biogenesis is taught, just not called a Law, which would give the false impression that it is known to be impossible for life to come from non-life. Since there is no known absolute barrier, that would be speculation rather than fact.

As has to be said in this sort of discussion, the ideas refuted by the experiments of Pasteur and others are not greatly similar to modern ideas of abiogenesis. They involved the appearance of modern organisms in relatively short timescales to explain where the organisms discovered came from. Modern ideas of abiogenesis involve vastly longer timescales and very different conditions - and the first life is expected to be considerably simpler.

So it seems to me that you need to produce evidence that there is a real problem.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 06-25-2008 8:17 AM AlphaOmegakid has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 06-26-2008 3:38 PM PaulK has responded

  
PaulK
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Posts: 15201
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 21 of 312 (473059)
06-26-2008 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by AlphaOmegakid
06-26-2008 3:38 PM


quote:

Huxley's address can be found Here

And I note that it supports my points. Huxley clearly argues against the view that modern life forms regularly form from inorganic sources.


It is a matter of everyday experience that it is difficult to prevent many articles of food from becoming covered with mould; that fruit, sound enough to all appearance, often contains grubs at the core; that meat, left to itself in the air, is apt to putrefy and swarm with maggots. Even ordinary water, if allowed to stand in an open vessel, sooner or later becomes turbid and full of living matter.

However he does not rule out the possibility that it might happen or have happened:


But though I cannot express this conviction of mine too strongly, I must carefully guard myself against the supposition that I intend to suggest that no such thing as Abiogenesis ever has taken place in the past, or ever will take place in the future.

quote:

Now clearly Huxley was looking into the far distant past for this event. He was looking for it to be a chemical event. He was looking for some sort of chemical evolutionary pathway. He was looking for a "simple" form of life. But he was honest enough to adreess that this was his reasoning, and not a matter of observation. It was his opinion based on philosophical faith. All of the abiogenesis theories today have the same elements that Huxley declared defeated by the law of biogenesis.


It is absolutely clear that Huxley did NOT make such a declaration. Even your quote makes that clear. In fact he explicitly states that the evidence is not strong enough to come to such a conclusion.

Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.


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PaulK
Member
Posts: 15201
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 23 of 312 (473061)
06-26-2008 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by AlphaOmegakid
06-26-2008 4:46 PM


quote:

For all of you who keep referring to Pasteur's experiments, I have not made a claim about Pasteur's experiments. This is strawman argument. My claim was about the law of biogenesis being taught in schools.

In other words the important material is covered. In that case I'd say that you have no valid complaint.


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