I haven't had the time to contibute for ages, but Juhrahnimo's post is a shocker....!
Juhrahnimo wrote:
To those of you who attack my Chrisitanity, thanks, you just fulfilled prophecy (again).
The originators of your religion knew that it was totally unconvincing and so they gave you guys a heads-up for the flak you would cop. Pretty sensible "prophecy". Most religions have an explaination for the why many people will reject them.... such rejection is never admitted to be a failing of that religion
To those who evaded the main issue and attacked out-of-context sidebar issues, I have no real comment since you didn't either.
You actually got pretty well demolished.
To those who actually addressed the issue, thank you. We can discuss a few points:
Where did the RNA come from that produces these L-amino acids?...
As Questzal said, you've just moved the goalposts. You were rebutted on the issue of chirality, so you've gone for the "but what about, but what about" approach in the hope of hitting some fringe area of scientific knowledge (like abiogenesis) where your frightened God of the Gaps resides.
And don't argue about the LIE; just stick to your guns on the irrelevant truths. That's evolution in a nutshell. If you say the same can be said for religion, then you're putting evolution and religion into the same class, so I suggest you avoid going there.
Hmm, big lie? Evolution is entirely open to scrutiny. The claims, facts and data are available for you to test and scrutiny and if your up to it, you could try to write a peer reviewed article that rebutts it. Your have all the motivation in the world to try: money, fame and the furtherance of your religious beliefs. That you guys never use the avenues of science to further your objectives is somewhat telling!
On the other hand your are encouraged to take religion on faith and strictly prohibited from testing it's tenets. Well I have tested it anyway: and it fails from the born-again baptismal process, glossolalia, faith healing, and the power of prayer. In return why don't you test science: try aircraft travel, modern telecommunications, or just use your computer and you may also wish to avail yourself of a significantly greater life expectancy thanks to modern medicine. Hmmm, which one is the lie: the one providing demonstrable knowledge or the one merely providing an emotionally satisfying response to the fear of death?
What the heck is THAT? They "...BELIEVE...." that "...through hitherto unknown processes..."? Of course they have to "believe" these molecules existed because they STILL can't explain HOW these molecules came together; they just BELIEVE these molecules were there somehow. Sounds like alot of faith is involved here. I thought we were talking about science.
Again, science is open to scrutiny and testing, religion is not. When religion is tested anyway, it repeatedly fails. Which one is likely to be true then? Hmmm.
And the "kinda like sodium chloride needs instructions to form a cube" argument is just as pathetic; so how DOES it form a cube? We'll wind up at the exact same spot again; it took INTELLIGENCE to make the universe function as we know it.
Jar's argument is compelling sound.
Where exactly is your God of the Gaps sitting now? Does this God make these sodium cubes or did he just set everything (the laws of the universe) so that these things can happen without his input?
If you God still makes everything happen (and nothing happens without him) then God can simply be redefined as "Nature" or naturalistic processes or the laws of the universe.
If your God set everything up (intelligent design), then when did he set things up and how much now continues without his input? If sodium forms a cube now in compliance with the laws of the universe without his input, then why is not life the same? Maybe God merely started the ball of evolution rolling.
Your God of the Gaps can happily reside in abiogenesis or other fringe areas of scientific knowledge... for the time being. Just be prepared to hide him away again when we solve this puzzle.
This message has been edited by Gilgamesh, 02-09-2005 22:13 AM
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