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Author Topic:   Evolution has been Disproven
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6049 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 134 of 301 (184305)
02-10-2005 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by Juhrahnimo
02-10-2005 12:02 AM


Just RNA.
Quetz writes:
...The ribozyme uses nucleoside triphosphates and the coding information of an RNA template ...
Totally ludicrous, don't you see? I'm starting to think that you're not even READING what you cut and paste. You may even just be a sensationalist who enjoys complex ideas, even if there's no other reason for it. But simply posting the above quote (cut and paste) in hopes of supporting your argument shows that YOU DIDN'T READ it. The mechanisms that you describe requires INFORMATION and CODING (see your own post). So WHERE did this "information" COME FROM, and HOW was it ENCODED? And how was the CODE determined? And, once you have THAT problem solved, I'll let you explain where the DE-CODING system came from and HOW did they chemically evolve simultaneously and so conveniently.
I'm sure Quetzal read it, I'm just not sure that you understand it. A ribozyme is RNA. Some ribozymes can catalyze the replication of RNA, and the production of RNA building blocks from smaller molecules.
In other words, RNA produces RNA building blocks that are put together to replicate RNA. It's all RNA. There is no need for a complex coding and decoding machinery for what Quetzal is referring to.
A single, self-replicating strand of RNA is the code and the catalyst.
The way scientists first produced, and continue to explore, the catalytic activity of such RNAs is by synthesizing millions of short RNA strands of random sequence, and then selecting the ones with activity.
But you ask:
So what if they can make RNA in a lab?
The argument that scientists intelligently designed these RNAs is not valid, since they did not predict or produce the sequence. That is, scientists were NOT able to design catalytic RNAs, but random production and selection were able to produce them.
For this guy's crazy ideas to work, it REQUIRES a mechanism that can ENCODE GENETIC INFORMATION and, obviously another mechanism to DECODE. Where do these capabilities come from, and how does this mechanism decide WHAT INFORMATION TO ENCODE?
Again, self-replicating RNAs do not need encoding/decoding machinery. There is no "decision" for "what information to encode", it is merely chemical reactions. Short RNA strands capable of catalyzing their own replication do so. No higher information, no complex cellular machinery.
Hopefully that clears up your misconceptions a bit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Juhrahnimo, posted 02-10-2005 12:02 AM Juhrahnimo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Juhrahnimo, posted 02-10-2005 1:36 AM pink sasquatch has replied

pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6049 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 146 of 301 (184331)
02-10-2005 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by Juhrahnimo
02-10-2005 1:36 AM


not develops, has
HOW did the RNA (rybozyme) develop this amazing capability? Simple question. Why ignore it?
Sorry, I thought I answered your question. I'll try again:
The RNA does not "develop" catalytic activity, it simply has catalytic activity.
I'm trying to think of a decent analogy - your question is kind of like: "HOW did the NaCl (table salt) develop this amazing capability to dissolve in water?"
Salt didn't need to "develop and amazing capability" to dissolve in water, it just does, that is, its chemical properties cause it to do so.
Likewise, the chemical properties of a short, self-replicating RNA strand cause it to make copies of itself. It doesn't develop the capability, it has the property.
Does that make more sense?
Um, are you disagreeing with me or with Quetzal? It was Quetzal who pointed out the term "machine", not me.
I'm not on anyone's side, I am simply trying to clear up misconceptions about RNA catalysts and RNA-based abiogenesis theory. (And you should ask Quetzal about his choice of terminology, not me.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Juhrahnimo, posted 02-10-2005 1:36 AM Juhrahnimo has not replied

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