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Author Topic:   Evolution has been Disproven
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3933 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 218 of 301 (205571)
05-06-2005 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Gabe Webb
05-06-2005 10:08 AM


Re: *sigh*
I think you missed the point that crash was talking about.
When you accept something by faith you do so in the absence of evidence. I believe in God without any evidence. In fact, the Bible specifically states that you are more blessed if you have faith in God without any evidence. It is expressly telling you it is better to believe without proof. John 20:29
The things that science accepts it does so based on evidence. The alarm clock has not blown up the past 1,000,000 times I have hit the snooze button therefore I can use this as evidence that it will most likely not blow up the 1,000,001 time. The first time I might not be so sure so I better do it from behind a blast screen with a remote snooze button presser. Then after I do it a bunch of times I can be mostly certain that it wont blow up if I take it home.
That is all science is in the business of, being mostly certain about something with what we know as fact so far. The fact in the alarm clock case is the history of trials where the clock did not blow up.
If your conclusions are so tentative, please explain why you defend evolution so furiously.
Evolution is defended because it is being attacked not by its merits but rather by its perceived impact on the moral fabric of society. Not one legitimate problem with evolution has even been brought up by YECs yet they have at many times attempted to destroy it based on these supposed problems.
It is exactly the equivalent of being framed for a crime you did not commit. You have a group of people prosecuting a case against you that is completely made up or a horrid bastardization of the truth. If something like this was happening to you I would hope that same people who are advocating for evolution here would also advocate for your fair treatment in the legal system.
I mean, it could be wrong, right?
With the same amount of probability that you alarm clock will explode when you hit the snooze button. Yes it could be wrong.
So why make such a big deal over some Creationists? After all, the chances of you theory being wrong is about the same as ours.
We make a big deal over YECism because it is an insult to honesty, intelligence, education, democracy, freedom, American values, Christianity, and nearly every other religion in the world.
We make a big deal over YECism because the actions of those who define what YECism is have been shown to be deceptive, malicious, greedy, and self-serving.
We make a big deal over YECism because they are trying to sidestep the system in a deceptive manner in order to further a religious agenda that does not even conform to the faith of the majority of the people they claim to represent.
We make a big deal over YECism because it is observably false. Yet more and more is become a powerful political force in America influencing our beloved country in a way that would turn it into a theocracy.
AND in NO WAY is the chance of evolution being wrong the same as the chance that YECism is wrong. YECism is demonstrably wrong by anyone who has take high school geology while evolution has adapted and withstood the challenges put forth of some of the greatest minds over more than a century. It is almost insulting to compare the two.
YECism is like a toothpick. It takes only minimal education to be able to dispel it like you would break a toothpick between your fingers. A child could do it.
And besides, even if it turns out to be false, what is so abhorrent about believing in something other than pseudo-proven 'scientific' concepts?
Nothing is wrong with other people believing in myth like YECism. The problem is when they expect and try to force other people to believe in such a myth. This site and all this controversy would not exist whatsoever if there was not an active YEC force trying to drive the education of our children into the ground and make this country into a theocracy.
This message has been edited by Jazzns, 05-06-2005 09:27 AM

FOX has a pretty good system they have cooked up. 10 mil people watch the show on the network, FOX. Then 5 mil, different people, tune into FOX News to get outraged by it. I just hope that those good, God fearing people at FOX continue to battle those morally bankrupt people at FOX.
-- Lewis Black, The Daily Show

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Gabe Webb, posted 05-06-2005 10:08 AM Gabe Webb has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Siguiendo la verdad, posted 06-10-2005 10:43 AM Jazzns has replied
 Message 228 by randman, posted 06-13-2005 2:51 AM Jazzns has replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3933 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 222 of 301 (205612)
05-06-2005 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Gabe Webb
05-06-2005 1:00 PM


Absolutly incorrect!
This is the same with a scientific experiment - the difference is that for it to be SCIENTIFIC, you are supposed to be 100% sure.
This it totally wrong. Please read my previous post Message 218.
If anyone here claiming to be science minded has ever main the claim that science requires 100% certainty then they are also wrong. Science is in the business of being very sure of things not absolutly sure. By definition of the method, the conclusions must have a degree of uncertaintity. This is called tentativity. You have been reminded of this plenty of times so far.
What part of the fact that science holds its conclusions tentativly by definition do you not understand?
{ABE}
Because YECism cannot be held tentativly is one of the reasons is will never be considered science.
This message has been edited by Jazzns, 05-06-2005 11:11 AM

FOX has a pretty good system they have cooked up. 10 mil people watch the show on the network, FOX. Then 5 mil, different people, tune into FOX News to get outraged by it. I just hope that those good, God fearing people at FOX continue to battle those morally bankrupt people at FOX.
-- Lewis Black, The Daily Show

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Gabe Webb, posted 05-06-2005 1:00 PM Gabe Webb has not replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3933 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 226 of 301 (215023)
06-07-2005 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-06-2005 1:15 PM


Re: Probability of evolution by chance
0
I just couldn't let this one go.
I couldn't believe the depth and insight of such a well articulated
response. I don't think we have ever had such a succinct and well thought out argument ever presented here at EvC. We should get Bill Birkland to take a look at this. The hours of painstaking explanation and reference hunting he has contributed must pale in comparison to the awesomeness of this one discrete fact.
I truly enjoyed your post and I wait in eager anticipation of your participation in other threads or even in this one.
Maybe you could humble me with your powers of explanation by responding to my less than well received Message 218. No one else seemed to like it enough to respond but I can only hope that someone would at least put in the same amount of courageous effort you have displayed here.
Thanks!

FOX has a pretty good system they have cooked up. 10 mil people watch the show on the network, FOX. Then 5 mil, different people, tune into FOX News to get outraged by it. I just hope that those good, God fearing people at FOX continue to battle those morally bankrupt people at FOX.
-- Lewis Black, The Daily Show

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Siguiendo la verdad, posted 06-06-2005 1:15 PM Siguiendo la verdad has not replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3933 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 232 of 301 (216652)
06-13-2005 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by randman
06-13-2005 2:51 AM


Re: *sigh*
Jesus is specifically talking about objective evidence. He says that it is better if you believe without ever experience physical proof like the disciples had yet still were in disbelief:
Jesus in John 20:29 writes:
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.
There is no way to misinterpret that statement. Throughout the new testament it focus is on faith in Christ; not proving that Christ was real.
Maybe you could show your bravery and go back and respond to the rest of the post which had substance worth debating rather than focusing on contradicting this rather blatant and obvious tennent of Christianity.

Organizations worth supporting:
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by randman, posted 06-13-2005 2:51 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by randman, posted 06-13-2005 2:33 PM Jazzns has not replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3933 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 233 of 301 (216654)
06-13-2005 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-10-2005 10:43 AM


Re: Faith without evidance
Thanks but I like to let the Bible speak for itself. That verse it pretty clear that:
1. Jesus is talking about physical (i.e. objective) evidence.
2. Jesus says that you are blessed, moreso than his audience, if you believe in him without the need of physical (i.e. objective evidence)
To take it any other way is to disregard a position of Biblical literalism.
{ABE}
I offer the same challenge to you as I did randman. Go back and respond to the substance of that post for which this thread is on topic.
This message has been edited by Jazzns, 06-13-2005 11:59 AM

Organizations worth supporting:
Electronic Frontier Foundation | Defending your rights in the digital world (Protect Privacy and Security)
Home | American Civil Liberties Union (Protect Civil Rights)
AAUP (Protect Higher Learning)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Siguiendo la verdad, posted 06-10-2005 10:43 AM Siguiendo la verdad has not replied

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