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Author Topic:   Evolution has been Disproven
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4919 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 228 of 301 (216520)
06-13-2005 2:51 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by Jazzns
05-06-2005 11:24 AM


Re: *sigh*
When you accept something by faith you do so in the absence of evidence. I believe in God without any evidence. In fact, the Bible specifically states that you are more blessed if you have faith in God without any evidence.
This is a misreading of the text, imo. Jesus, for example, tells His followers to share their testimony, their evidence in their lives of their experience of Jesus Christ, and that through these means, people can believe.
To say you should believe without any evidence at all is wrong.
It's true that one should believe without physically seeing the Resurrection of Jesus, but there's something deeper going on here that a lot of people miss. God created and maintains the universe through faith. His faith precedes and causes to be the existence of all things. That's what the Bible teaches.
So God requires for some reason that mankind learn to do a little of the same, to believe first and create out of that faith.
The whole thing is related to spiritual mechanisms. One develops faith by "hearing it" on the inside first. It's more like an intuition than an objective measurement. And that's because the place where people connect with God is through their spirit, and believing by just seeing what you beleive on the outside does not necessarily teach one how to hear and believe God from the inside out, which is how it has to be.
According to Jesus, God is a Spirit, and requires that we worship Him in spirit and truth, and we cannot do that without developing some spirituality, and without intuitive faith and reason, one has a very weak spirituality or maybe not much at all.
Objective reasoning has it's place in the world, but is indeed somewhat over-rated. Much of how we actually live is of necessity first governed by subjectivity, and indeed what we call objectivity is just a subset of out subjective experience, an area of subjective experience we have learned to isolate and compartmentalize in order to produce great gains in this world, and maybe even the one to come.
But it's illusory to think of subjectivity and objectivity as dichotomy or opposites. Objectivity is just a subset of subjectivity, which is the reality of our human experience.
Take the idea of falling in love and marrying. Falling in love is not objective, for the most part. Nor is even choosing a mate, but both of these things can and should be tempered by objective analysis. You need to be careful and make sure you marry the right one, and objective reason is very helpful, and positive subset of the necessarily subjective process involved with choosing the right person and making that commitment.
The fallacy of scientific basis for belief is simple. Science is way too primitive. The technology is so primitive that even scientists themselves make claims such as testing for whether God did something is way out of the reach of science, maybe by definition.
As such, one should be highly suspicious of basing any beliefs, other than how to do something in a highly tailored technical situation on science.
As far as evolution, it by definition is going to be riddled with errors because evolutionists a priori exclude any possibilities of God being involved with the process, and exclude any reasonable attempts to detect God's handiwork or methods as off the table.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Jazzns, posted 05-06-2005 11:24 AM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by crashfrog, posted 06-13-2005 8:35 AM randman has replied
 Message 232 by Jazzns, posted 06-13-2005 1:54 PM randman has replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4919 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 231 of 301 (216621)
06-13-2005 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 229 by crashfrog
06-13-2005 8:35 AM


God has faith in Himself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by crashfrog, posted 06-13-2005 8:35 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by crashfrog, posted 06-14-2005 9:42 PM randman has replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4919 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 234 of 301 (216663)
06-13-2005 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Jazzns
06-13-2005 1:54 PM


Re: *sigh*
Sure, "objective" evidence in the sense of empirical proof, but that's not what you wrote. You wrote beleiving without evidence, and did not qualify that. Additionally, testimony is accepted in a court of law as evidence.
So what he was talking about was simply what He said, believing without seeing. That does not mean there is no evidence involved in the process of believing, but just not seeing Him physically for themselves.
Jesus puts no qualifications really on the type of evidence, except seeing Him for oneself, that is more blessed. In other words, he upbraids doubting unless you have an equal experience of seeing and touching the Risen Jesus in the flesh.
But considering the objective evidence is fine for someone to do.
This message has been edited by randman, 06-13-2005 02:35 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Jazzns, posted 06-13-2005 1:54 PM Jazzns has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4919 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 236 of 301 (216996)
06-14-2005 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by crashfrog
06-14-2005 9:42 PM


The need for faith comes from imperfect knowledge of self.
So you say, but that's far from proven. I think faith comes from knowledge more than ignorance. Faith in a lot of ways is a perspective. Biblical faith is God's perspective. So it increases with knowledge, not decreases.
God with perfect knowledge would have perfect faith.
This message has been edited by randman, 06-14-2005 11:56 PM

This message is a reply to:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4919 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 246 of 301 (235358)
08-22-2005 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by THEONE
07-02-2005 2:54 PM


Re: Totally off topic
Administrator, I'm a new member but I have been reading the evc forum and I'm wondering why is it that many of the threads that seem to disprove the evolutionist belief tend to be closed and unpostable? Is this a website where there is bias?
In a word, yes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by THEONE, posted 07-02-2005 2:54 PM THEONE has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by wj, posted 08-22-2005 4:42 AM randman has not replied

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