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Author Topic:   The lies behind the Miller experiment
Yaro
Member (Idle past 4841 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 46 of 115 (156333)
11-05-2004 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by JESUS freak
11-05-2004 4:02 PM


Re: An explanation of evolution
Did you not read my post above?

The Miller-Urey Experiment is evidence of ABIOGENISIS. Abiogenisis is the study of the possible origins of life thrugh non-organic chemical processes. It's more chemestry than Biology and it has nothing, I reapeat NOTHING to do with evolution.

So, if anyone brings it fourth as proof of anything other than ABIOGENISIS, they are in the wrong. Do you understand?

The Miller-Urey experiment is Abiogenisis NOT Evolution.

If you could repeat the sentece above three (3) times followd by the statement:

"I understand the meaning of the above words."

We will know that you got it. Ok?

Peace.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by JESUS freak, posted 11-05-2004 4:02 PM JESUS freak has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by JESUS freak, posted 11-08-2004 9:50 AM Yaro has responded
 Message 63 by RAZD, posted 11-08-2004 10:35 AM Yaro has not yet responded

Lammy
Member
Posts: 3616
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 47 of 115 (156338)
11-05-2004 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by JESUS freak
11-05-2004 4:04 PM


Re: miller-urey experiment
JF writes:

Most books being a key word. I try at least to avoid those. Papers published by professors is a better sorce of data for me.


Here are some quotes that makes me really doubt that you probably don't really understand those papers that you claim to read.

quote:
The miller experiment may be fifty years old, but it is still one of the most prominent arguments for evolution.

if we evolved from such orginisms that wern't poisend by it, would't that be going backwards in evoloution for that to be now hazerdous for us humans? Yet we are "evolved" from them in other ways. Is there any advantage in having cyanide be extreamly poisonous to us humans, the "pinacle of evolution?"

What I have understood is that you evolve because you are better as a result of natual selection.

short of a fusion reaction that happened to fuse the atoms of life together.

doubt me This is how I spend my time, and for what I have had to do before this site, the knolage has proved to be quite enough to make anyone who believes in this theory stutter.


Here is a hint. Anyone with the most basic knowledge of biology would get a really good laugh out of every single quote I put above. Some of the words are scientific, but they are being used completely out of context. They may sound impressive to a 10 year old, but they are laughable to the rest of us here.

From what I have seen, I can only draw 2 conclusions out of this.

(1) You really think you know something/everything about biology and you honestly don't know that you really sound foolish to the rest of us.

(2) You are aware that you don't sound impressive at all, but since this is an online forum where people can't really see your face you think that there's nothing to lose and just go ahead and make an idiot out of yourself.

Believe me, you are not the first.

This message has been edited by Lam, 11-05-2004 04:30 PM


Hate world.

Revenge soon!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by JESUS freak, posted 11-05-2004 4:04 PM JESUS freak has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Parasomnium, posted 11-05-2004 4:58 PM Lammy has responded

Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 1041 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 48 of 115 (156348)
11-05-2004 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Lammy
11-05-2004 4:29 PM


Re: miller-urey experiment
Lam, I'm experiencing a sort of deja vu feeling. It seems like we've got another Desdamona on our hands here, wouldn't you agree?


"It's amazing what you can learn from DNA." - Desdamona.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Lammy, posted 11-05-2004 4:29 PM Lammy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Lammy, posted 11-05-2004 5:09 PM Parasomnium has not yet responded

Lammy
Member
Posts: 3616
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 49 of 115 (156355)
11-05-2004 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Parasomnium
11-05-2004 4:58 PM


Re: miller-urey experiment
Nah, this person seems a little better than Desdamona. Desdamona didn't even know that flashing stars are really meteorites burning when entering the Earth's atmosphere. There was one point when she actually said that stars sometimes fall from the sky. The scary thing was she actually meant it and tried to argue with people when some people tried to tell her that they were rocks rather than stars.

He seems arrogant, but at least he can read... to some extent.


Hate world.

Revenge soon!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Parasomnium, posted 11-05-2004 4:58 PM Parasomnium has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by jar, posted 11-05-2004 5:15 PM Lammy has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31796
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 50 of 115 (156359)
11-05-2004 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Lammy
11-05-2004 5:09 PM


Re: miller-urey experiment
He seems to be a good young kid from Colorado Springs Christian. That limits him somewhat but I have hope that he'll work through it.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Lammy, posted 11-05-2004 5:09 PM Lammy has not yet responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 20332
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 51 of 115 (156393)
11-05-2004 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by JESUS freak
11-02-2004 5:13 PM


Cyanide and Hydrogen Making Bacteria
JESUS freak writes:

However, Cyanide “life-giving”? Ya right. Let’s talk about these two elements for a second. First, Cyanide is not some instant life giver. No you can’t “Just Add Lightning!” to get life. Cyanide is actually the stuff that makes up suicide pills! Why use Cyanide?

Pure argument from incredulity with no attempt to study the question. A quick google on "cyanide bacteria" gives me:

Scientists Discover How Hydrogen-Making Bacteria Thrive with Cyanide (click)


A University of Arizona chemist and colleagues from Munich, Germany, have discovered how microbes avoid being poisoned by the cyanide and carbon monoxide compounds they make and incorporate into enzymes. The bacteria use the enzymes to turn water into hydrogen for energy.

Bacteria with this remarkable ability have long been widely dismissed as one of Mother Nature's interesting, if largely useless and unimportant, oddities, said UA chemistry professor Richard S. Glass.

But they now interest industry searching for cheap hydrogen sources for such things as hydrogen-fueled cars and other technologies ...

They've been around a long time, methinks (perhaps longer than a weasle ).

Note: not to confuse with cyanobacteria that are so named for their color (cyan, blue-green) not any chemical composition.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by JESUS freak, posted 11-02-2004 5:13 PM JESUS freak has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by tsig, posted 11-06-2004 5:35 PM RAZD has not yet responded

tsig
Member (Idle past 1253 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 52 of 115 (156742)
11-06-2004 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by RAZD
11-05-2004 8:00 PM


Re: Cyanide and Hydrogen Making Bacteria
Thanks for the info, but do you think JF will notice that you just torpedoed him, or will he twist you words or ignore them? The suspense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2004 8:00 PM RAZD has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by NosyNed, posted 11-06-2004 5:43 PM tsig has not yet responded

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8868
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 53 of 115 (156751)
11-06-2004 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by tsig
11-06-2004 5:35 PM


There is a chance
I'd say that a a few percent of those who come in like JF are capable of both listening and understanding.

That is one reason why I try hard to be gentle at first. Give him a chance.

This message has been edited by NosyNed, 11-06-2004 05:43 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by tsig, posted 11-06-2004 5:35 PM tsig has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Lammy, posted 11-06-2004 6:21 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

Lammy
Member
Posts: 3616
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 54 of 115 (156783)
11-06-2004 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by NosyNed
11-06-2004 5:43 PM


Re: There is a chance
Ned writes:

I'd say that a a few percent of those who come in like JF are capable of both listening and understanding.


I agree that chances are that these people are capable of both of those things. However, wouldn't you agree that so far they have only been the most egoistic idiots who think they know everything by memorizing 2 words out of some obscure article on biology? I believe that the more you are gentle with these people the more they'll think they are right.

If you look through my previous posts in reply to him, you will see that I was very patient with him for a long time. I tried to point out some flaws in his logic but all I got in return are more flaws accompanied by "I know all... you don't know what you are talking about..." I think I gave him enough chances before I started hitting him hard with his own words.

It would be a dream come true if people like him would for once admit that perhaps they don't know as much as they would like to think they know. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen anytime soon. I say we hit them as hard as possible and force them to wake up from their fantasy. It's not like they're going to say, "gee, I never thought of it that way before. I'll think about it and get back to you." I'm going to kiss my own foot if JF actually says something like that.


Hate world.

Revenge soon!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by NosyNed, posted 11-06-2004 5:43 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

Mission for Truth
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 115 (156937)
11-07-2004 10:45 AM


Personally I can't take anyone seriously that can't even spell properly. Unless of course jesus freak doesn't speak english as a first language, if so I take it all back.

Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3911
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 56 of 115 (156942)
11-07-2004 11:04 AM


Enough sniping at JESUS freak
Post on topic, or don't post.

Adminnemooseus


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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2272 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 57 of 115 (156955)
11-07-2004 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by JESUS freak
11-02-2004 5:13 PM


Re: Errors in presentation of Miller experiment
yes and elemental potassium will burst into flames if put in water and yet without it our muscles will not work. (ever been low on potassium? it sucks. i was in a hospital for four days.) funny thing chemistry...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by JESUS freak, posted 11-02-2004 5:13 PM JESUS freak has not yet responded

JESUS freak
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 115 (157200)
11-08-2004 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Yaro
11-05-2004 4:20 PM


Re: An explanation of evolution
it's not evidence because it didn't work.

IT FAILD!

You got that for the third time!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Yaro, posted 11-05-2004 4:20 PM Yaro has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by NosyNed, posted 11-08-2004 10:00 AM JESUS freak has not yet responded
 Message 60 by Dr Jack, posted 11-08-2004 10:01 AM JESUS freak has not yet responded
 Message 61 by PaulK, posted 11-08-2004 10:02 AM JESUS freak has responded
 Message 62 by jar, posted 11-08-2004 10:04 AM JESUS freak has responded
 Message 64 by Yaro, posted 11-08-2004 10:37 AM JESUS freak has responded

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8868
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 59 of 115 (157207)
11-08-2004 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by JESUS freak
11-08-2004 9:50 AM


Failed?
Why do you say it failed? What was it supposed to do that it didn't?

As I understand it the experiment was to either explore to see what would happen under what was understood to be early earth conditions or to see if anything like life precursors would form.

If it was the former then it can't "fail". Is just shows what happens under those conditions.

If it was the later then it succeeded in creating simple organic molecules useful to life.

What do you think was being attempted?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by JESUS freak, posted 11-08-2004 9:50 AM JESUS freak has not yet responded

Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 449 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 60 of 115 (157210)
11-08-2004 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by JESUS freak
11-08-2004 9:50 AM


Re: An explanation of evolution
JF,

Please, for the record, tell us if you understand the difference between abiogenesis and evolution?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by JESUS freak, posted 11-08-2004 9:50 AM JESUS freak has not yet responded

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