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Author Topic:   The lies behind the Miller experiment
JESUS freak
Inactive Member


Message 106 of 115 (160427)
11-17-2004 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Lithodid-Man
11-16-2004 12:38 AM


Re: Who lies about the Miller-Urey Experiment?
Just because something is dead doesn't mean it was once alive, is a block of iron alive? I don't think so as it does not fulfill al the requirements for life. Like iron, the amino acids created by the first miller experiment never fulfilled all the requirements of living.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Lithodid-Man, posted 11-16-2004 12:38 AM Lithodid-Man has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Coragyps, posted 11-17-2004 9:52 AM JESUS freak has not yet responded
 Message 108 by AdminNosy, posted 11-17-2004 10:22 AM JESUS freak has not yet responded
 Message 109 by Admin, posted 11-17-2004 11:15 AM JESUS freak has not yet responded
 Message 112 by Lammy, posted 11-17-2004 1:57 PM JESUS freak has not yet responded
 Message 113 by crashfrog, posted 11-17-2004 2:54 PM JESUS freak has not yet responded
 Message 114 by Admin, posted 11-17-2004 5:43 PM JESUS freak has not yet responded

Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5377
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 107 of 115 (160435)
11-17-2004 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by JESUS freak
11-17-2004 9:47 AM


Re: Who lies about the Miller-Urey Experiment?
Like iron, the amino acids created by the first miller experiment never fulfilled all the requirements of living.

We all know that.

If there is a biology text anywhere that claims otherwise (and you have failed to produce one) it is wrong, and inexcusably so. Do you have a point here at all, JF?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by JESUS freak, posted 11-17-2004 9:47 AM JESUS freak has not yet responded

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 108 of 115 (160451)
11-17-2004 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by JESUS freak
11-17-2004 9:47 AM


Time to follow the guidelines
JesusFreak, It is time to follow the forum guidelines.

Your original opening post position has been shown to be false by all the information posted here. You have yet to supply any support for that position.

It is time to retract what you've said or support it. Further comments of your own will not further the discussion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by JESUS freak, posted 11-17-2004 9:47 AM JESUS freak has not yet responded

Admin
Director
Posts: 12578
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 109 of 115 (160490)
11-17-2004 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by JESUS freak
11-17-2004 9:47 AM


Re: Who lies about the Miller-Urey Experiment?
Hi JESUS freak,

This is a serious science discussion site. You're expected to have sufficient skill, knowledge and maturity to carry on rational discussions based upon evidence. Please read and comply with Message 100 and Message 108, else by the end of the day you'll be in Limbo.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by JESUS freak, posted 11-17-2004 9:47 AM JESUS freak has not yet responded

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3707
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 110 of 115 (160514)
11-17-2004 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by mb109
11-16-2004 9:52 PM


On validity
quote:
6. the experiments results are invalid, because at the time the composition of the earth atmosphere was thought to be different then it is today.

The experiments results are the experiments results.

If it is looked at in the context of "Let's set up these conditions, and see what happens", then the results are absolutely valid.

The claim that those conditions were those of early Earth is what has been shown to be invalid.

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by mb109, posted 11-16-2004 9:52 PM mb109 has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18307
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 111 of 115 (160562)
11-17-2004 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by mb109
11-16-2004 9:52 PM


Re: hello all
mb109 writes:

6. the experiments results are invalid, because at the time the composition of the earth atmosphere was thought to be different then it is today.

I have the same reaction as Moose. One of the great mysteries of life is how it started. Organic molecules, even just amino acids, are incredibly complex. It wasn't believed that uncontrolled conditions could produce such molecules. The significance of the Miller/Urey experiment, and the reason it is still cited today and described in all the textbooks, is that it forthrightly attacked this question for the first time, and because it *was* fantastically and unbelievably successful. A 70 year old experiment isn't still talked about today because it was a failure, but because it was landmark research demonstrating that complex organic compounds could be produced naturally. Experiments since then have revised and refined the environmental conditions, but all that is anticlimatic after the initial finding and usually barely rates a mention.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by mb109, posted 11-16-2004 9:52 PM mb109 has not yet responded

  
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3607
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 112 of 115 (160566)
11-17-2004 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by JESUS freak
11-17-2004 9:47 AM


Re: Who lies about the Miller-Urey Experiment?
Permit me to remind you of a very important post made by Admin.

Admin writes:

JF writes:

I was talking about message 29 where you asked me if this was the book


Hi JESUS freak,

I'm not sure why we're experiencing difficulties here. It would be greatly appreciated if you would read the very recent messages from me and Charles more carefully and give us a meaningful response. You claim to have a text book that misrepresents the Miller/Urey experiment. Please provide the text of that mispresentation.

Let me try to be very clear by repeating this: Please provide the text of the misreprentation of the Miller/Urey experiment from your earth science text book.

Also, please provide the text of the other misrepresentations you have mentioned, such as the February, 2004, issue of Popular Science, or the March, 1998, issue of National Geographic.

If there's something about this request that you don't understand or that you need help with then please just let us know.


Please answer admin and provide us with some kind of quote or reference from the book that you claimed to have used the experiment to support evolution.


Hate world.

Revenge soon!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by JESUS freak, posted 11-17-2004 9:47 AM JESUS freak has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 113 of 115 (160587)
11-17-2004 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by JESUS freak
11-17-2004 9:47 AM


Like iron, the amino acids created by the first miller experiment never fulfilled all the requirements of living.

Molecules aren't "alive" or "dead", JF. The amino acids contained in your cells are indistinguishable, in any way, from the aminos generated in the experiment.

You may be alive, but you're made out of things that are not, themselves, alive.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by JESUS freak, posted 11-17-2004 9:47 AM JESUS freak has not yet responded

Admin
Director
Posts: 12578
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 114 of 115 (160647)
11-17-2004 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by JESUS freak
11-17-2004 9:47 AM


Re: Who lies about the Miller-Urey Experiment?
Hi JESUS freak,

Since there have been no posts indicative of a change in behavior, I'm restricting you to Limbo among the main forums. Since this is your thread, I will transfer it over there. You still have privileges in some of the non-main forums.

Restoration of full privileges will happen once you've demonstrated the ability to follow moderator requests and the Forum Guidelines.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by JESUS freak, posted 11-17-2004 9:47 AM JESUS freak has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12578
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 115 of 115 (160650)
11-17-2004 5:44 PM


Thread copied to the The lies behind the Miller experiment thread in the Boot Camp forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.
  
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