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Author Topic:   Thermodynamics, Abiogenesis and Evolution
RAZD
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Message 4 of 128 (99473)
04-12-2004 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by berberry
04-12-2004 4:07 PM


Your title is the reason - "and the origin of life"

on a molecular level reactions occur that either give off energy or need energy to complete.

in a balanced system one reaction could give off energy that is used by another reaction to fuel it's completion.

the earth is not a balanced system however, as it receives energy from the sun and from impacts of meteors and similar bodies (one theory is that the moon is a remnant of a major collision).

with energy available there is no inherent problem for abiogenesis from the second law of thermodynamics.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}


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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20479
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 18 of 128 (99694)
04-13-2004 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by NosyNed
04-13-2004 11:55 AM


Re: agreeing to a point
There is another issue here as well, whether we are talking about getting from A to B to C and eventually to Z, or about getting from A to Z in one move (or A to Y and then to Z), the {energy \ information processing} requirements are different.

(canadian pennies are worth a penny in michigan ... perspectives ....)


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}


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RAZD
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Posts: 20479
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 77 of 128 (101067)
04-19-2004 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by berberry
04-19-2004 11:04 PM


Re: As an off-topic aside... new topic?
gravity as a distortion of space rather than a force per se

this could be a new topic?


This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20479
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 90 of 128 (369142)
12-11-2006 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by berberry
05-04-2004 5:27 PM


Re: What I think Brad is saying...
The author of the present work states: if living systems are described in the framework of hierarchic equilibrium thermodynamics, this contradiction does not exist.

1. Is there any serious charge of a conflict between evolution and the 2LT coming from scientific quarters? If not, I should think that the paragraph I quoted above must be referring to creationism.

The difference is between a closed system and an open system, not necessarily between living systems and physics.

You can consider each element as a closed system by including (black-box) all energy inputs and exports so that you can then measure the overall change with time of the energy levels -- if you do this then the "contradiction does not exist" -- you have built a hierarchy of (arbitrary) isolation boundaries across which you measure the flux of energy.

The problem is in being able to isolate the systems sufficiently and to measure the energy balance across the (arbitrary) boundary of isolation with sufficient accuracy.

4. Is Gladyshev trying to accommodate creationism or refute it?

No clue from this.

That's my take.


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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


This message is a reply to:
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