How to make a ribozyme (using abiotic starting compounds)

Mutations, and there are a many different kinds of mutation from single nucleotide replacement to entire chromosome duplication, modify the genetic code. Almost every reproductive event introduces mutations without any intelligent participation. Extrapolation of the processes of mutation and selection backward in time is used as a framework in which to interpret life's change and diversity, including the origin of life itself.Mutation is a predominantly random process we've actually confirmed observationally, and it relies only upon matter and energy following known physical laws, so scientific theories of life's origins are strongly based upon real-world evidence, though they remain extremely tentative at this point.Intelligent design and intervention in the reproductive process in order to cause mutations has never been observed, and so theories that assume this happens are not based upon real-world evidence. Such theories require entities and processes to exist for which we have no evidence, neither direct nor indirect. Because it assumes an intelligent agent without necessity. The genetic structures cited as evidence for ID form naturally. There is no necessity for arguing that objects fall because of intervention by intelligent agents, because we know about gravity. And there is no necessity for arguing that sequences of mutations happen because of intelligent intervention, because we know that mutations followed by selection happen naturally with no intervention whatsoever in generation after generation. What fact or facts or implication of facts is the introduction of an intelligent agent based upon?--Percy

We already know that the creation of information does not require intelligent guidance. That was why I provided the example of mutation. Mutations, which represent the addition, subtraction or modification of information, arise in almost every reproductive event without any intelligent intervention whatsoever.In other words, additions, subtractions and modifications of information occur just by matter and energy following known physical laws. Mutation and natural selection (and allele remixing for sexual species) are all that is necessary to produce the diversity of life around us today, and the entire history of life represented by fossils in the ground. What other causes are there besides natural causes? Do you have evidence of something non-natural ever being the cause of something happening in the natural world? Of course not. (In the context of this question, people are of course part of the natural world.)We don't know the details of the origin of life, may never know the details given that it happened around 4 billion years ago, but the genetic code arose through the natural process of change and selection we're familiar with today, only with predecessor molecules of DNA rather than modern DNA.This is the answer to your later question about what is it that is mutating for pre-life: DNA predecessors, and the predecessors before them, and before them, and so forth until you reach a time when there were only relatively simple organic molecules. Yes, that's right, but I think what you probably meant to say is, "I don't think allele remixing is the same as mutation," and that is correct, they are not the same. Genetic diversity is just a measure of the richness of variety in the alleles of a species gene pool.Allele remixing is what happens in sexual species. In single-celled non-sexual species there is no such thing as allele remixing during reproduction. When a bacteria divides, the two resulting bacteria probably each have a small number of mutations. Bacteria can also perform a type of allele remixing called conjugation, where two existing bacteria temporarily meld to share genetic material.In sexual species, the difference of offspring from parents is caused primarily by allele remixing, but nearly every offspring also contains a small number of mutations. In other words, allele mixing and mutation are not mutually exclusive. I don't know, since I can't think of anything I said that this could be a response to, so it's completely out of context for me. All I can say is that scientists don't think of "creation" as a synonym for "abiogenesis", and I don't see anyone confusing terms except you, as you just did with genetic diversity and allele remixing. This is famous. Your website even provides the correct explanation for the pause: In other words, once the question was asked and the interviewers had been revealed to have misrepresented themselves, Dawkins was no longer thinking about the question. And by the time he answers he had evidently forgotten the question, because his answer is unrelated to the question.The question actually has a very simple answer. There are a number of different processes that add to information in the genome (though biologists don't usually think of genomes in terms of information, that perspective is much more common in ID). One of the simplest to explain processes, though not the most common one, is gene duplication. Occasionally cell division errors cause duplication of an entire gene. With two copies of the gene, one of them is now free to mutate independently to carry out a modified or even a new function, because the other gene is still there to perform the original function.--Percy

Hi Rob,It's a little hard to track your reasoning in your opening couple points, so rather than replying directly just let me try to clarify the point I was making.I was under the impression that one of your points was that the creation of information requires an intelligent source. This is untrue, as mutations (errors in copying during reproduction, a natural process) add, subtract and modify information.If that wasn't really one of your points and you already understand that, then that's a good thing. Sure it can. Consider a single bacterium, just to keep it simple. This bacterium was the product of a cell division which likely produced a few mutations, so this bacterium likely possesses a few differences in its DNA from the original bacterium, call it the parent bacterium.Now the parent bacterium was also the product of a cell division which likely produced a few mutations, so the parent bacterium likely possessed a few differences in its DNA from it's parent bacterium, which we'll call the grandparent bacterium just to keep the names unique.In turn, the grandparent bacterium was also the product of a cell division which likely produced a few mutations, so it was different in its DNA from the great-grandparent bacterium.And the great-grandparent bacterium was different in its DNA from the great-great-grandparent bacterium.In other words, the information that is mutated in each generation came from the previous generation, and the previous generation's information came from the generation before that, and so forth. I don't know if it's a no-win situation for you, because I don't understand your argument. You said the fact that the DNA code exists does not equate to natural causes. The DNA code exists in the natural world. If you believe the DNA code came about through non-natural causes, and if you believe there can never be any evidence for things in the natural world that have non-natural causes, then you are invoking a cause for which you have no evidence.And that's why I said you have no necessity for resorting to claims of non-natural causes, because natural causes are not only sufficient to explain what we observe in nature, we actually have real world evidence for them. But you're ignoring the point, which is that the same process of change and selection observed today is also believed to have caused simple organic molecules to gradually acquire the self-replication capabilities that led to life and eventually all the diversity we know today. Mutations are the result of copying errors during reproduction, there's no secret about that. Mutations can also be caused by radiation. Theories become accepted based upon the degree to which they're supported by and explain the evidence, as well as they're demonstrated predictive power over time. Evidence is something you lack for your non-natural causes.--Percy