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Author Topic:   How to make a ribozyme (using abiotic starting compounds)
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1487 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 27 of 55 (411720)
07-22-2007 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Rob
07-22-2007 1:24 AM


Re: Synthesis of Nucleosides
That's what I mean right there... I am not self organizing.
Who organized you, then?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Rob, posted 07-22-2007 1:24 AM Rob has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1487 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 32 of 55 (411777)
07-22-2007 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Rob
07-22-2007 12:31 PM


Re: Synthesis of Nucleotides
What you guys need to do (and have not) is show how a highly specified complex code can originate without intelligence.
Random mutation and natural selection.
But, look, the code isn't actually that complex. Here it is:
That's it. That's the whole code. Three codons specify an animo acid according to this chart. It's true for nearly every single organism (there are maybe a few families of organisms that use a slightly different set of codes.)
Also, I don't think genetic diversity is equal to mutation. Mixing genes of the father and mother doesn't necessarily mutate anything.
You've correctly identified sexual recombination as a source of phenotypic diversity that doesn't rely on mutation; but the mother and the father have to have different alleles in the first place, right? The different alleles they have to recombine come from mutation, initially.
If there were no mutation, all individuals would be clones - regardless of recombination. If everybody is recombining the exact same cloned alleles, there's no gain in diversity.
So, in different generations, preexisting genes may be expressed in offspring that were not in the parent or vice versa.
Er, no. The only way you can have a gene neither of your parents possess is by mutation. You may be confusing dominance with inheritance.
Btw... since this relates to the issue of an increase in information and not simply a net change... this is one of my favorite questions...
A false account based on misleading editing.
quote:
1. According to Dawkins, he paused because the question revealed that the interviewers were creationists, that he had been duped about their motives. He paused to think about how to handle them, and the change of subject occurred due to the several minutes when he confronted them being omitted from the video (Dawkins 2003).
2. The question is equivalent to asking how complexity could evolve, which Dawkins has covered in at least four books (The Blind Watchmaker, River Out of Eden, Climbing Mount Improbable, and A Devil's Chaplain). He has answered the question at great length.
3. The ability of a single person to answer a question is largely irrelevant. The scientific literature is rife with examples of information increasing.
CB102.1: Dawkins interviewed about evolution increasing information
It's a good example, but not of what you think. It's an example of the fact that there's no dishonest act creationists won't stoop to to attack scientists and science.

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 Message 31 by Rob, posted 07-22-2007 12:31 PM Rob has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1487 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 35 of 55 (411827)
07-22-2007 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Rob
07-22-2007 4:43 PM


Re: Synthesis of Nucleotides
But the next time I see a kid with down syndrome, I'll remember that it is only nature doing her thing. Or is it an error?
Down's syndrome isn't caused by gene duplication, but rather by improper assortment of chromosomes during meiosis.
It has nothing to do with mutation.
You believe what you must for the sake of your lifestyle demands (that is clearly what this is really all about... I won't name names... but I can read between the lines).
Evolution doesn't justify any sort of lifestyle. Indeed, if people like Ted Haggard are any indication, it's hardly necessary to be an evolutionist or even abandon fundamentalist Christianity to live hedonistically.
Percy, like the rest of us - indeed like the vast majority of scientists - accepts evolution because of the vast weight of scientific evidence that supports it.

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 Message 34 by Rob, posted 07-22-2007 4:43 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Rob, posted 07-22-2007 7:31 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1487 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 37 of 55 (411851)
07-22-2007 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Rob
07-22-2007 7:31 PM


Re: Synthesis of Nucleotides
What do you mean by improper?
The human body is chemistry. It's processes are stoichiastic. In meiosis, chromosomes assort equally into two daughter cells. Sometimes they don't. One cell gets one extra and the other gets one too few.
Is the syndrome a disorder, or just 'evolution' working it's random marvels?
Down's syndrome isn't heritable, so it really doesn't have anything to do with evolution. It's just a chromosomal disorder - not an example of the gene duplication that Percy was talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Rob, posted 07-22-2007 7:31 PM Rob has not replied

  
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