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Author
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Topic: How do you decide what is True in the Bible?
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EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6116 days) Posts: 111 From: Phoenix, Arizona USA Joined: 07-22-2005
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Message 301 of 309 (233048)
08-13-2005 6:39 PM
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The True Hour
jar writes: Was Jesus killed in the third or sixth hour? {in Message 168} EltonianJames responds here:
I am going to assume that this was not a loaded question and that by "killed" you mean the hour in which Jesus laid down His life, for He Himself tells us...
John 10 17 Therefore, doth the Father, love, me, because, I, lay down my life, that, again, I may receive it: 18 No one, forced it from me, but, I, lay it down, of myself,Authority, have I, to lay it down, and, authority, have I, again, to receive it: This commandment, received I, from my Father. At about the third hour Jesus was nailed to the cross. At about the sixth hour darkness fell upon the land. At about the ninth hour Jesus breathed His last.
Matthew 27 45 Now, from the sixth hour, darkness, came upon all the landuntil the ninth hour. 46 And, about the ninth hour, Jesus uttered a cry, with a loud voice, sayingEloi! Eloi! lema sabachthanei? that is, My God! my God! to what end hast thou forsaken me? 47 Now certain of them who were there standing, when they heard, began to sayThis man, calleth, Elijah. 48 And, straightway, one from among them, running, and taking a sponge, and filling it with vinegar and putting it on a reed, was giving him to drink; 49 but, the rest, saidStay! let us see whether Elijah is coming, and will save him. But, another, taking a spear, pierced his side, and there came forth water and blood. 50 And, Jesus, again crying out with a loud voice, dismissed the spirit. Mark 15 25 And it was the third hour, and they crucified him. 26 And the inscription of his accusation, had been inscribedTHE KING OF THE JEWS. 27 And, with him, they crucify, two robbers, one on his right hand, and one on his left. 29 And, the passers-by, were reviling him, shaking their heads, and sayingAha! thou who wast pulling down the shrine, and building one in three days! 30 Save thyself,coming down from the cross. 31 Likewise, the High-priests also, mocking one to another, with the Scribes, were sayingOthers, he saved, himself, he cannot save! 32 The Christ, the King of Israellet him come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And, they who had been crucified with him, were casting it in his teeth. 33 And, when it was the sixth hour, darkness, came on all the landuntil the ninth hour; 34 and, at the ninth hour, Jesus, uttered a cry, with a loud voiceEloi! Eloi! lama sabachthanei? which is, being translatedMy God! My God! to what end, didst thou forsake me? Luke 23 44 And it was already about the sixth hour, and, darkness, came upon the whole land, until the ninth hour, 45 the sun failing; and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. 46 And, calling out with a loud voice, Jesus saidFather! into thy hands, I commend my spirit. And, this, saying, he ceased to breathe. The truth of Gods' Word is always there if only we will earnestly and diligently seek it out.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Re: The True Hour
ok then, what were jesus's last words? (see above) and on what day was he crucified?
אָרַח
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Message 303 of 309 (233108)
08-13-2005 11:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 300 by jar
08-13-2005 6:23 PM
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Re: fall of satan
Well, the First & Second Books of Adam & Eve were written fairly late and were definitely designed to build the Jesus story. They go into lots of detail on the Fall of Satan. It is also classic Max Sennett. ah, haven't read those. maybe i will put them on my ever-increasing reading list.
אָרַח
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 300 by jar, posted 08-13-2005 6:23 PM | | jar has not replied |
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EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6116 days) Posts: 111 From: Phoenix, Arizona USA Joined: 07-22-2005
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Re: oh god not this again
arachnophilia writes: you're a pastor. you should know better You are a student and perhaps you just don't know any better but you should be more humble in your learning, seeking the Grace and Favour of God in your studies and not relying on your own sense of logic and reason as somehow being sufficient enough to reveal to you all the answers to the mysteries of the Word of God. You will forgive me if I give more credence to those who have a far, far greater knowledge than your admittedly "kindergarten level understanding" of the ancient languages. You may be of the opinion that your beginning studies give you a greater handle on these languages but I will defer to those who have devoted their entire lives to the study and interpretation of the ancient texts, remaing humble before God Almighty, relying on Him to send His Holy Spirit who reveals things "hard to be understood, which, the uninstructed and unstable, wrest,as also the other scriptures" remaing faithful always to the Authority and Power and Majesty of God in whom all knowledge rests.
arachnophilia writes: there is no reasonable way to read EITHER chapters as about satan. No doubt Saul of Tarsus used this same line of reasoning as his justification for persecuting the body of Christ, even unto their deaths, convinced in his heart and mind that Jesus was a false messiah and that His followers were heretics and blasphemers. Sorry arach, but I do not believe that you could not be more mistaken in your understanding of these ancient texts, but keep studying and you may eventually have your eyes opened to the deeper truths revealed in Gods' Word. You may be of the impression that somehow your elemental studies have given you the ability to see all the mysteries of God revealed in His Word but I suggest that you admit to yourself that there are many, many scholars who have a far better grasp on the ancient texts than you have shown here. Keep studying, humbling yourself always before God and His Infinite Wisdom, and perhaps, in Gods' own good time and pleasure, deeper truths will be given to you!
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17825 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.2
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Re: The Age of the Universe
quote:
Here we are given the idea that first God made the luminaries and then spread them throughout the expanse of the heavens, which can serve to eliminate the argument that light from stars a billion light-years away could not have reached the earth if the earth is only 6000 to 10,000 years old. Now remember that I am not a YEC, but my holding to the OEC theory (can I call it that?) does not make me correct and someone holding to the YEC wrong.
No rational person could possibly regard such an argument as convincing. Astronomers locate stars based on the light that reaches us now. Thus, the distance derived by astronomy is the distance that the light has travelled (unless we are to assume an illusion of some sort).
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AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2324 days) Posts: 2073 From: The Universe Joined: 10-11-2003
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Message 306 of 309 (233137)
08-14-2005 9:36 AM
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Witching Hour
We've reached the 300 mark. Will someone propose a continuation thread? This will close within the hour.
AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Re: oh god not this again
You are a student and perhaps you just don't know any better but you should be more humble in your learning, seeking the Grace and Favour of God in your studies and not relying on your own sense of logic and reason as somehow being sufficient enough to reveal to you all the answers to the mysteries of the Word of God. You will forgive me if I give more credence to those who have a far, far greater knowledge than your admittedly "kindergarten level understanding" of the ancient languages. You may be of the opinion that your beginning studies give you a greater handle on these languages but I will defer to those who have devoted their entire lives to the study and interpretation of the ancient texts, remaing humble before God Almighty, relying on Him to send His Holy Spirit who reveals things "hard to be understood, which, the uninstructed and unstable, wrest,as also the other scriptures" remaing faithful always to the Authority and Power and Majesty of God in whom all knowledge rests. mhmm. but this is not a translation issue. this not even a particularly complicated interpretative issue. notice my refutations of your point quoted from the very verses you yourself used? and from a few verses earlier in the chapter? this is a reading comprehension issue. i don't know why so many people have such a problem with this. one is clearly a metaphor talking about the king of tyre -- it says so, and the other is clearly talking about the king of babylon -- it says so also. i'm sorry, you're wrong. the bible says so.
Sorry arach, but I do not believe that you could not be more mistaken in your understanding of these ancient texts, but keep studying and you may eventually have your eyes opened to the deeper truths revealed in Gods' Word. You may be of the impression that somehow your elemental studies have given you the ability to see all the mysteries of God revealed in His Word but I suggest that you admit to yourself that there are many, many scholars who have a far better grasp on the ancient texts than you have shown here. Keep studying, humbling yourself always before God and His Infinite Wisdom, and perhaps, in Gods' own good time and pleasure, deeper truths will be given to you! i'm sorry, but if seeing the truth means that i have to ignore what's actually in the bible, and twist what it so obviously says (literally says, i might add) into something entirely different and dogmatic, then i'm just not gonna play. ej, you either claim to accept the bible literally, or you don't. you claim you take all of the bible, but you have to quote out of context to make your points, and willfully ignore parts of the old testament because they're not pretty. you do not accept the bible. nor have you actually refuted my post, i might add. the post that quoted from the bible showing why you're wrong.
אָרַח
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Message 308 of 309 (233177)
08-14-2005 3:43 PM
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messiahs and who wrote the bible.
EltonianJames writes: No, you haven't got it straight. Think, man, think! you said:
quote:
When I use the term "Bible" I am referring to the word of God as received by Adam,...Abraham,...Moses,...Israel(Jacob)...Peter,...James,...John,...Paul and all the others in between.
you said that adam recieved part of the bible. do you go back on this?
EltonianJames writes: Do you suppose that Adam and Eve did not know their Messiah would come? yes, actually. "think, man, think!" what did adam and eve need saving from? their fall? well, he didn't come within their lifetimes, did he? what *IS* a messiah? you're thinking in decidedly christian terms -- christ redefined what a messiah was. they weren't expecting someone to die for them, they were expecting someone to kill for them. a messiah is a king in the line of david, who restores the line of kings and soveriegnty to judah, resucing the hebrews from oppression of another country. does this definition even make sense in terms of adam and eve? there was no davidic line of kings yet. there was no nation of judah or israel, and there was no oppression from another country. (nor was there a temple to rebuild, but that wasn't a problem in jesus's time) so their messiah? what does that mean?
אָרַח
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AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2324 days) Posts: 2073 From: The Universe Joined: 10-11-2003
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Message 309 of 309 (233180)
08-14-2005 4:02 PM
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The witch has spoken
Witching hour....the witch has spoken Please open a continuation thread.
AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com
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