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Member (Idle past 4020 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Anything Divine in the Bible? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
So god, in his infinite wisdom, refused to prohibit men from treating women like cattle, instead tossing them a bone by giving them 7 days a month off from sex.
Wow, what a guy! A truly heartwarming effort on his part. This may be an all time high (or low, depending on one's perspective) in rationalization. Whatever it is, it isn't divine. Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Yes, of course. Humans are flawed because of the choice that Adam and Eve made 6,000 some years ago, and god wrote the bible, not to correct our flaws and tell us how we should live, but to enable our wickedness and make it a bit easier on women 7 days out of each month.
Makes perfect sense. Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Men get to take women sexually anytime they want, except that women get a week off once a month. Endorsing slavery, but only six years at a time. Wow, this god guy was a prince among men, wasn't he?
Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
What does the fact that god didn't denounce slavery say, that he approved of slavery?
Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
quote: quote: Whoa! Cognitive dissonance much? So, he wanted to show his disapproval of beating slaves to death, but not beating the living shit out of them so long as they survived one day after the beating, and didn't want to show his disapproval of slavery. It's been a very long time since I've seen such irrational commitment to an obviously flawed system of morality. I'd hoped it was because it had disappeared. Oh well.
quote: Seriously. Are you so naive or uninformed to actually believe that slavery was entirely, or even mostly, a voluntary institution? Really?!? Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Wow. You really are that uninformed and naive.
Interesting that you ignored the rest of my message. Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
quote: Curious statement to make on a debate forum.
quote: Yes, particularly when you ignore the arguments and rationales of those opposing you and cling irrationally to your refuted positions. Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
quote: Please find one example of an argument you made that I didn't respond to. Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Why anyone would ever get the idea that you're a bigot is beyond me.
Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
quote: Demonstrably false. For evidence I offer Buz's posting history. Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
quote: No.
quote: Yes, but not your idea of a creator. Jefferson was not a christian. The closest label to describe his ideas would be deist. Should you entertain any idea that Jefferson thought our country would be based on or derived from the bible, consider this quote:
History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes. -Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813, found here. If you think that the rights to life, liberty and the happiness of pursuit are from the bible, I'd be most curious to see where you think they can be found.
quote: It could mean that he believes in the tooth fairy and accepts parts of Poor Richard's Almanac as divine. Do you have any actual evidence that he did accept some of the bible? Can you show which parts he accepted and which he didn't? Most relevant to this topic, do you have any evidence whatsoever that he felt that any part of the bible was divinely inspired? Or are you content to rest comfortably in ignorance of actual facts, relying instead on hope and possibilities? {ABE} Here are a few more quotes from Jefferson relating to the divinity of the bible and its relation to our country, just for fun:
The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills. Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law. In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being. Think long and hard before you again cite Jefferson in support of your bible. Edited by subbie, : As noted Edited by subbie, : ??? Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
quote: Except that it isn't. It would take a certain amount of attention to detail to understand what why you said is wrong. I'll be impressed if you take the time and make the effort to find out.
quote: Your concept of god is that he is a creator. That doesn't mean that everyone's concept of a creator is one of a god. Logical fallacy.
quote: Nothing that you have said would prove that.
quote: No, that's your flawed spin on what Jefferson said.
quote: First of all, the quote you're responding to was Jefferson's, not mine. Second, the release of slaves every 50 years is hardly the mark of divinity.
quote: He had a lot of books, including a Koran. The fact that he had a bible says absolutely noting about whether he thought it divine. In fact, considering that the Jefferson Bible was a series of excerpts from the bible, leaving out the considerable portions that he thought were either nonsense or not the word of Jesus, the strongest conclusion we can come to is that Jefferson significant portions of the bible were not accurate or worth keeping. Give up on Jefferson, he offers your ilk no port whatsoever. {ABE}
quote: Curious that the mere inclusion of those things, completely regardless of the accuracy of what it says about those things, makes such an impression on you. The mark of a true zealot. Edited by subbie, : As noted Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
quote: Thomas Jefferson never wrote those words. Thomas Jefferson wrote
I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man. http://memory.loc.gov/master/mss/mtj/mtj1/022/0400/0440.jpg
quote: It wasn't just that Jefferson had critical things to say about christianity. He didn't believe Christ to be the messiah. He believed Christ was a great moral teacher. But he didn't believe in the virgin birth. He didn't believe Christ died and arose for the dead. He didn't believe Christ performed any miracles. In short, he didn't believe in the divinity of Christ, nor did he believe in the divinity of the bible.
quote: Objection, assuming facts not in evidence.
quote: There is no law giver. There is no Legislator. Jefferson was a believer in Natural Law. Natural Law comes from nature. Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
quote: I'm not aware that he ever said he was a deist, but I'm not a tremendous Jefferson scholar. Of course, I never said he was a deist, so I'm not sure why you're asking me this question. I said the closest label to apply would be deist. Here's what TJ said himself:
You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know. I must say, I'm rather amused by your fixation on Jefferson. It's symptomatic of something I see in a lot of fundies; a misplaced importance on the ideas of authority-type figures when arguing to nonbelievers about the validity of christianity. It's perhaps most vividly illustrated when fundies talk about the "conversion" of Anthony Flew. I can't help but come to one of two conclusions. Either fundies think their own dogmas are bolstered by the discussion of such authorities' beliefs, or they think that nonbelievers will somehow suddenly convert if they only knew that authority-types agree with fundies. It's a fascinating behavior. In any event, it seems to me that this whole Jefferson vein in this thread is terribly off topic. If it really means that much to you, why don't you start another thread? Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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subbie Member (Idle past 1281 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
quote: Ah Buzzie, still lying for Jeebus I see. Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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