jar writes:
9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
This prayer was in response to the request by
the desciples of Jesus as to how they should pray. These were devout close desciples to Jesus who were to soon take part in the Penticost experience in the upper room after his resurrection. He was preparing them and his followers as to how to address God their father in prayer. This prayer was not intended to apply to athiests, Buddhists, fetish worshippers or anyone else. One cannot isolate these type of texts to establish doctrine. This prayer must be tied in with other texts which specify who is being taught to say, "Our Father." For example, in I John 3:10 where some are "children of God" and some "children of the devil". Obviously and logically, one must conclude that children of the devil, some who even worship Satan are not inclusive in who is to call God
father as per the Lord's Prayer. You are trying to tell the www that, even Satan worshippers are
sons of God, when in fact we've shown you that scripture calls some sons of the devil. You evidently think you can simply sweep those kind of verses under the proverbial rug and wilfully ignore them in this debate.
Just because millions of people pray this prayer, does not mean that all are bonafide children of God justified in calling him "Father." Millions deny Jehovah, god of the Bible and his son Jesus the Christ. Obviously these who deny this god Jehovah would not be sons of the god they deny and would refraom from calling him
father. Only the true children have a meaningful relationship with a father whether it be spiritual or human fathers.
jar writes:
and
1 Thessalonians 3:11 (King James Version)
11Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
Again, this letter was written to the believers at the church/churches of Thessalonica who were devout followers of Jesus having likely have had received Jesus, i.e. the Holy Spirit of Jesus, i.e being born from above and having the witness of the Spirit in them.
and
jar writes:
Galatians 1:4 (King James Version)
4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
This is what you're doing, Jar. You are applying to all men that which the apostle Paul wrote in a letter to the early believers at the churches in Galatia. The "us" and "our" in this verse applys to Paul and the specific people he is writing to. And of course as per other texts in the Bible these letters were written for doctrine to all subsequent believers who were to receive him (Jesus) i.e. his spirit into their being and bodies and who were the "children of God" as per the requirements layed out in the epistles/letters to the churches as per the specific texts I supplied for you to read.
You are the one continually harping for us "Biblical Christians" to read the Bible. Well, have you looked up my list of texts
specifying who are truly able to be called children/sons of God as per scripture? Or are you just going to go on and on citing these verses out of context which clearly were written to true believers and devout followers of Jesus the Christ to whom they were meant to apply?
and
jar writes:
1 Timothy 1:2 (King James Version)
2Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Who was Timothy? He was a young devout follower of Jesus, a true believer who had obviously had a significant conversion and was certainly one who could call God his father. Again the "our" here applies to the true believers to whom Paul is instructing via this letter to young Timothy. This letter is not intended to apply to Buddhism, to agnosticism, to Islam who reject Jesus as born/begotten son of God so to them, even Jesus could not call God "father," he being to them only as a messenger and prophet of God.
and
jar writes:
Isaiah 64:8 (King James Version)
8But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
This text is a unique rare occasion in the OT where the
Israelites likened unto children of God. Most always they are refered to as the "children of Israel," i.e. the name God gave to Jacob as his sons were to be the heads of the tribe of Israel.
jar writes:
I can continue posting examples from both the Old and New Testaments, but I think folk can get the idea. God is seen as the Father, with no mention of any Born Again nonsense.
It's obvious you don't get it, Jar, that one must have a
spiritual birth to even see God's kingdom according to John 3:3,4 et al. Jesus said that which is of the flesh is flesh and that which is of the spirit is spirit. Adam was the only created human ever. God made Eve from part of him. All other humans have been
procreated from Adam and Eve according to scripture and are naturally existing in the flesh having no geneological or spiritual ties with God until Penticost when a new era of an indwelling Spirit came upon men. Jesus told Nicodems that if he wanted to see the Kingdom of God he must have this experience of a spiritual birth. The apostle John in John 1:12 said "As many as receive him, to them he gave power to become the
sons of God" .......("him=Jesus) i.e. (to receive the spirit of Jesus, the Holy Spirit from whom he was born) Jesus being resurrected does not bodily come down out of Heaven to be "received" by men. It is his spirit which they receive, i.e being born "from above" (John 3:3 literal Greek reading) "Born again is actually not a literal translation of John 3:3. The textual words are "from above", i.e a spiritual birth.
to become a son of anyone one must be either born or adopted. Well via this spiritual birth experience i.e. the baptism of the Holy Spirit, one becomes a "new creature" i.e new creation in Christ Jesus. (see II Corinthians 5:17 "If any man be in Christ he is a new creature." i.e. a spiritual being/child/son of God) Yes, we are still in the flesh but via the Holy Spirit baptism we receive a
spiritual dimension in our bodies and souls qualifying us to call God "Father" or as it is put in one text "abba Father."
I've said all the above to establish the fact that
all humans are not children/sons of God according to sound specific scriptural doctrine on the subject.
Jar, it's not quantity of scriptural text that we need to establish who sons of God are but
specific scriptural texts which hone in on answering the topic's question
None of your citings cut the mustard. You misapply what was applicable to specific persons and beings to all, regardless of religion, lifstyle, morality, belief, et al. To you
one size fits all so far as Biblical doctrine goes. That's not how one becomes knowledgeable in Biblical doctrine. You've got a lot to learn in this regard. The problem is not Biblical contradiction as you are claiming. It's that you have not mastered the skill of applying scripture to scripture in determining sound doctrine.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.
™ Version 4.2
