|
Author
|
Topic: The new teachings of Jesus
|
ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 5743 days) Posts: 143 From: Anthem AZ, USA Joined: 08-27-2006
|
|
Message 46 of 106 (345251)
08-30-2006 9:29 PM
|
Reply to: Message 45 by ringo
08-30-2006 9:02 PM
|
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
What I was saying is that you have quite a data set to work with. and you answered yourself with the dead sea scrolls. Every supposed lost book of the bible like the gnostic gospels has serious problems that preclude a serious claim that it is a lost book of the bible. The most recent being the 'Lost Gospel of Judas'. The evidence against the gnostic gospels, the Judas gospel and the scrolls found at the dead sea that are not part of the canon is clear. I think the better question to address here is the one proposed earlier by Ramoss i think. How did we come to have the books in the bible or canon that we do?
"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 9:02 PM | | ringo has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 47 of 106 (345253)
08-30-2006 9:33 PM
|
Reply to: Message 45 by ringo
08-30-2006 9:02 PM
|
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
Actually the Samaritan Bible has 5 books, the Ethiopian Bible has 81 books, the Nestorian New Testament has 22 books while the Western New Testament has 27 books and the Ethiopian New Testament has 35 books in its broad Canon but 27 in its narrow canon. That seems to imply that that there really is no "Bible".
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 9:02 PM | | ringo has not replied |
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
ReformedRob writes: How did we come to have the books in the bible or canon that we do? A worthy question, but that's not the topic. The OP question is:
quote:
Would the brand new chapter in the Bible become retroactively literally true?
So, if a "lost" book, chapter, etc. was found, how would you decide if it was authentic?
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 5743 days) Posts: 143 From: Anthem AZ, USA Joined: 08-27-2006
|
|
|
Message 49 of 106 (345261)
08-30-2006 9:56 PM
|
Reply to: Message 48 by ringo
08-30-2006 9:49 PM
|
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
Now we are getting somewhere but it's not just a lost chapter but could include a lost book as well. A simple examination of the evidence with proper methodology. The Higher Critical School and Lower Critical Schools of Literature do just this. You look at the internal evidence, external evidence and bbibliographic evidence (Chauncey Saunders, military historian) to determine authenticity and attribution.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 9:49 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 50 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 10:02 PM | | ReformedRob has replied |
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
ReformedRob writes: it's not just a lost chapter but could include a lost book as well. Well, you've been denying vehemently that anything could be missing.  In my very first post to you in this thread, Message 40, I said:
quote:
There could be lots of stuff that was lost....
If you agree with me now, I'll ride off into the sunset and leave the rest of them to feed on your carcass.
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 5743 days) Posts: 143 From: Anthem AZ, USA Joined: 08-27-2006
|
|
|
Message 51 of 106 (345267)
08-30-2006 10:12 PM
|
Reply to: Message 50 by ringo
08-30-2006 10:02 PM
|
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
I do deny it. I was merely qualifying the topic. And the tests I have mentioned have been applied many times to authenticate the canon and text we have in the Bible today.
"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 50 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 10:02 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 52 by jar, posted 08-30-2006 10:15 PM | | ReformedRob has replied | | | Message 53 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 10:17 PM | | ReformedRob has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
And the tests I have mentioned have been applied many times to authenticate the canon and text we have in the Bible today. Which canon? Which texts? Which Bible?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 51 by ReformedRob, posted 08-30-2006 10:12 PM | | ReformedRob has replied |
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
ReformedRob writes: the tests I have mentioned have been applied many times to authenticate the canon and text we have in the Bible today. So there's no possibility of ever finding any lost fragments, and even if we do, we have your instructions on how to handle them. I guess the topic is finished then.
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 51 by ReformedRob, posted 08-30-2006 10:12 PM | | ReformedRob has replied |
|
ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 5743 days) Posts: 143 From: Anthem AZ, USA Joined: 08-27-2006
|
|
|
Message 54 of 106 (345276)
08-30-2006 10:31 PM
|
Reply to: Message 52 by jar
08-30-2006 10:15 PM
|
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
The bible with 66 books, 40 authors, no apocrypha.
"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 52 by jar, posted 08-30-2006 10:15 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 55 by jar, posted 08-30-2006 10:33 PM | | ReformedRob has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
LOL Okay, so now we have it. What we are talking about is YOUR bible. Got it.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 54 by ReformedRob, posted 08-30-2006 10:31 PM | | ReformedRob has replied |
|
ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 5743 days) Posts: 143 From: Anthem AZ, USA Joined: 08-27-2006
|
|
|
Message 56 of 106 (345278)
08-30-2006 10:36 PM
|
Reply to: Message 53 by ringo
08-30-2006 10:17 PM
|
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
There is no credible evidence to suppose otherwise. Only conjecture
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 53 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 10:17 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 58 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 10:42 PM | | ReformedRob has replied |
|
ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 5743 days) Posts: 143 From: Anthem AZ, USA Joined: 08-27-2006
|
|
|
Message 57 of 106 (345280)
08-30-2006 10:37 PM
|
Reply to: Message 55 by jar
08-30-2006 10:33 PM
|
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
Not mine...the one whose authenticity and attribution has been responsibly verified. Nice ad hoc/ad hominem attempt though
"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by jar, posted 08-30-2006 10:33 PM | | jar has not replied |
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
ReformedRob writes: There is no credible evidence to suppose otherwise. On the contrary, there is no credible evidence to suppose that your magic "66 books" are all there is. Once again, Wal-Mart. You're claiming that everything that was ever in Wal-Mart is still in Wal-Mart. Nothing can ever be added, nothing taken away.
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 56 by ReformedRob, posted 08-30-2006 10:36 PM | | ReformedRob has replied |
|
ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 5743 days) Posts: 143 From: Anthem AZ, USA Joined: 08-27-2006
|
|
|
Message 59 of 106 (345291)
08-30-2006 11:13 PM
|
Reply to: Message 58 by ringo
08-30-2006 10:42 PM
|
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
ringo writes: On the contrary, there is no credible evidence to suppose that your magic "66 books" are all there is. Wow you refute the weight of history and biblical scholarship in one grandious sentence. I suppose the ongoing 200+ year old debate in the schools of Higher Criticism have no application then and are useless? Thank God we have you to clear this up for us with one sentence! or could it be that your are ignorance of the evidence?
"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 58 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 10:42 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 60 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 11:25 PM | | ReformedRob has replied |
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
Re: Could be is not an argument
ReformedRob writes: I suppose the ongoing 200+ year old debate in the schools of Higher Criticism have no application then and are useless? Pay attention: There is no one canon. Whatever application the schools of Higher Criticism may have, they have not settled on one "Bible".
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 59 by ReformedRob, posted 08-30-2006 11:13 PM | | ReformedRob has replied |
|
™ Version 4.2