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Author Topic:   What is the soul?
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 108 of 165 (447087)
01-08-2008 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Raphael
01-07-2008 1:00 PM


quote:
What i like to think of the "Soul" is just "The Breath of God". The same Breath He breathed into Adam. When we die, that leaves us.
This is true, because it says, "Gen 2/7: Then the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
This means, when this breath leaves, life leaves man. Yet the soul is a recurring word and theme, and requires allocation. That man 'becomes' a living soul, infers an emulation of another, precedent and pre-existing phenomenon, which now man is also bestwed in this physical realm, and the residue which he takes with him when he ceases breathing and is not alive anymore.
We can say also, that sustainance of food alone does not explain life, other than its upkeep only: because the life energy precedes the food/fuel supply, as with a newly born baby. Because life is alligned with the soul [man becomes a living soul], we can see that life is not possible without this soul factor. Because the soul is alligned to life, then all life forms possess souls, al beit in different doses or structures. This means that humans have a special added ingredient in the souls given them, as opposed the souls of all other living entities.
My understanding is, the breath is one of five components of a human soul, the other components being spirit, animal soul [instinct], elevated human soul ingredient, and the mind. Obviously, there has to be a form of recording all imprints of each living being, which prevails after life, and this factor most probably refers to what is commonly referred to as the soul.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Raphael, posted 01-07-2008 1:00 PM Raphael has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Raphael, posted 01-10-2008 12:58 PM IamJoseph has not replied
 Message 114 by ICANT, posted 01-11-2008 11:21 PM IamJoseph has replied
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 115 of 165 (448112)
01-12-2008 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by ICANT
01-11-2008 11:21 PM


Re: Re-Soul
quote:
This man in Gen. 2:7 was formed from the dust of the ground by God.
After which God breathed the breath of life into Him.
After the breath of life was in him.
He became a living soul. It does not say he was a living soul.
But we are not like this man.
He is not my ancestor. He is my predecessor.
So it does not make any difference what his makeup was.
He was the first man. He did disobey God. By his sin all mankind was separated from God and condemned as stated in John 3:18.
Friend, b4 leaping to John, examine genesis of its own. You are a predessessor of adam. We are exactly as of adam: we are adamites, the first speech endowed life forms, some 6000 years ago [no one has even produced a 'name' before this date, as opposed skeletal imprints - a name being the significance of an adam life form].
We are a seperate kind, as a group [species] and individually [by each finger print], the meaning of Adam rejecting the animal species as a counterpart. The 'dust' is biblespeak for today's 'particles' [quarks, etc]. The world is NOT 2000 years old, and there is no day w/o the Lord: "Gen 1/5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night".
What genesis is saying, is all things in the universe were created in one singular instant, [call it a big BANG!] - time being irrelevent at that instant. Today, science affirms this by its BBT - all that is contained in the universe today, is derived from that one point [where else - there was/is no else!]. Genesis is also saying, all that was created here was in potential form [w/o 'order and void' - Gen 1/2]; then form and order was ushered ['entropy'?]. Here, man was created, but he was still not active [not living]; man became animated ['living'] at a divine 'click', its manifestation being described in the verse:
quote:
5 No shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no herb of the field had yet sprung up; for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground;
Here, shrub and herbs refer to offspring; outgrowth. Meaning no repro had began, and the trees were inactive, yet created, in potential form.
quote:
6 but there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Therein is your 'click', whereby the inanimate became animated, namely as a living souls. Not an unscientfic premise either.
quote:
7 Then the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The 'Then' above refers to, at the instant of the preceeding verse.
quote:
This man was made before any creature.
This man named the creatures.
Not so. The dual gendered human marks the final act of creation. The Creator made the uni in wisdom, catering to all ingredients which will be required. The following metaphor applies: 'THE DINNER TABLE IS READY FOR THE GUESTS'.
quote:
God took a rib from this man and made a woman.
'SEPERATED' the man and woman. They were both created simultainiously as a dual-gendered first entity of humans .
quote:
Notice some differences in the man in Genesis 1:27 from the one in Gen. 2:7
This man and woman was created at the same time. Created as the heaven and earth was in Genesis 1:1.
God blessed man and woman. Told them to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. That says there was somebody here before.
You left out the most pivital factor. Man was blessed in the first chapter, not in the second:
quote:
Gen. 1/28. And God blessed them; and God said unto them: 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that creepeth upon the earth.'
quote:
They were never placed in a garden.
This is a reference to a spiritual realm [where snakes talk and walk upright, and where the source of life and knowledge is placed], from which man, in his pre-man state, was cast down to this physical realm, and re-entry barred.
quote:
They were never tempted.
We are tempted in every action, on every level and each instant. The temptation is only possible where there are laws of do's and dont's; these do not exist in the spiritual realm, thus nor does temptation. Here we see how a blessing is hidden within what appears a curse or punishment. Adam and eve became overwhelmed to sin by too severe a temptation. None of us would have prevailed this test: how long would one not touch that what promised eternal life and the greatest, Godlike knowledge: 10 mintes? The reason for this 'sure to fail' test is ultimately very sublime, for it is the only avenue which affords man to elevate. We do not get elevated because we do not sin; instead we can only get elevated when we rectify a sin. IOW, there is no elevation w/o sin. This is the gift to adam and eve. Decency is greater than innocense, for the former requires a pre-meditated action, while the latter is free of this onus. Thus:
'WHERE THE REPENTENT SINNER STANDS - THE MOST RIGHTIOUS CANNOT'.
quote:
This man was created in the Image of God.
This refers to speech. The OT sages have made a startling premise out of this verse. They deemed speech not only unique in this world, but also the universe; meaning if another life form exists, it may have communication facilities, but it will never have speech. We know that no other life form has acquired speech despite having far more time than humans to develop this trait. Has anyone seen the movie, ID4? This was written by a Jew, and he got around the problem by making the aliens use a man to voice their message, by manipulating a captured human's throat - because they never had speech!
quote:
God is manifest in three different forms. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
Not ultimately. The true monotheism is non-negotiable that the Lord is ONE. And there has never been a one in the universe; all created things began with a created duality.
quote:
This man had mind. God the father is all knowledge.
This man had a physical body. God the Son had a physical body.
This man has a spirit. God the Holy Spirit is a Spiritual being.
Thus this man created in the image of God had a mind, a body and a spirit.
The body will die one day.
The spirit and the mind will never die, they will spend eternity somewhere.
Jesus told Nicodemus he had to be born of the spirit to see the kingdom of God.
The spirit of man is born of the Spirit of God when he believes in Jesus Christ for salvation.
The mind is in a daily process of being changed as we study God's Word.
One day the body that houses the spirit and mind will die.
The spirit and mind will either be in God's presence or in Hell.
The destination is determined by what a person has done with Jesus Christ whether they have accepted or rejected Him.
Many people think the soul and spirit are the same thing. They get this idea because they are under the belief that the man in Gen. 2:7 and the man in Gen. 1:27 are the same man.
So far as I can tell the man in Genesis 1:27 did not have a soul.
The man in Genesis 2:7 did have a soul.
The soul was not the body.
The soul was not the breath of life.
Because it was not until after he received the breath of life he became a living soul.
So what is a soul?
God that caused this man to become a living soul did not say and I guess we will have to wait until we see Him and ask that question.
These are among the various belief systems of man, which I see as involluntary compulsions - because they exist even where mutually exclusive contradictions appear within all the belief systems.
The spirit, mentioned in Gen 1.2 [Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters], is signified by its follow-up verse:
"3 And God said: 'Let there be light.'.
This is followed by:
"And there was light.".
This is presented in a manner adaptable to many things, whereby 'light' can represent that which one aspires most, be it a revelation, message, messenger, enlightenment, etc. If it is seen as multi-levelled, it affords all in creation equality, pre-dating and thereby transcending all belief systems. This makes the criteria for elevation outside of religion per se; and within the perimeters of the do's and don't's of what one genuinely agrees to be so. Here, the message transcends the messenger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by ICANT, posted 01-11-2008 11:21 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by ICANT, posted 01-12-2008 7:14 AM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 126 of 165 (448302)
01-12-2008 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by ICANT
01-12-2008 7:14 AM


Re: Re-Soul
Yes, I agree the term descendent is more appropriate than predesessor, and this refers to the first and only time the word 'created' is used - which is in Gen 1/1. There is no predesessor of speech endowed humans - we know this is true despite the millions of years of precedent life forms. Thus Genesis uses the term 'GENERATIONS' of Adam; here, adam = human; it becomes a pronoun with the first recorded dialogue.
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by ICANT, posted 01-12-2008 7:14 AM ICANT has not replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 127 of 165 (448303)
01-12-2008 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by sidelined
01-12-2008 6:11 PM


Re: Re-Soul
'SPEECH'. This is a relavtively new phenomnon in the known universe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by sidelined, posted 01-12-2008 6:11 PM sidelined has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by ICANT, posted 01-12-2008 10:48 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 128 of 165 (448308)
01-12-2008 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Buzsaw
01-12-2008 8:46 PM


Re: Re-Soul
quote:
The genetic contribution is human life itself through procreation down through the centuries.
I don't see it that way. Procreation would not happen unless a precedent design or program was in place, and the procreating entities were in total interacting allignment with each other. The hovering intergration factor rules, and this negates any random.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Buzsaw, posted 01-12-2008 8:46 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Buzsaw, posted 01-13-2008 7:05 PM IamJoseph has not replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 130 of 165 (448313)
01-12-2008 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by ICANT
01-12-2008 10:48 PM


Re: Re-Soul
You will see that the only true definition of 'infinite' is that which is not subject to change, namely, 'I AM THE LORD I HAVE NOT CHANGED' [Ex]. And since nothing can pass this test, it's subsequent claim is also correct, namely 'I AM THE LORD THERE IS NO OTHER'.
Even light, which is regarded as the only known entity which is ageless, is subject to change: in its intensity, and when it is switched off.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by ICANT, posted 01-12-2008 10:48 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by ICANT, posted 01-13-2008 12:36 AM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 132 of 165 (448358)
01-13-2008 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by ICANT
01-13-2008 12:36 AM


Re: Re-Soul
LOL. Yes, the first dialogue is in genesis, and so is the first 'action', namely the command, AND GOD SAID LET THERE BE LIGHT. The word * SAID* refers to speech. Even all of man's works is consequent to speech, [The word] - the only factor separating us from all others. Science is derived from speech.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by ICANT, posted 01-13-2008 12:36 AM ICANT has not replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 136 of 165 (448502)
01-13-2008 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Buzsaw
01-13-2008 7:12 PM


Re: Eve
Adam was a male-female, dual-gendered entity, which became seperated later ['Man and woman created he them'/Gen 1/1].
Whether one accepts this or not, it appears a very logical premise w/o any alternative. Consider the odds of its alternative: two entities of exactingly equal counter-part traits - among billions of life forms! And when's the last time we saw such an occurence? Genesis makes remarkable logic here, and appears to have addressed this pivotal question with an answer which caters to a host of other issues.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Buzsaw, posted 01-13-2008 7:12 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by ICANT, posted 01-14-2008 11:00 PM IamJoseph has not replied
 Message 138 by Buzsaw, posted 01-18-2008 8:41 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 139 of 165 (449765)
01-18-2008 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Buzsaw
01-18-2008 8:41 PM


Re: Eve
No sir. The said premise is limited to the first emergent entity of a life form only, namely that a male did not arrive, then an exact counterpart female arrive, they shook hands and said, wow - what a co-incidence to meet you. It means there is no ONE in the universe, and all actions are based on a duality factor. This applies to all life forms, and all non-bio components.
It does not mean a girl's father is both male and female, but that the girl emerged from a male and female union, and when tracked to its original first entity, the male and female were a duality which became seperated. This is no alternative to this logic; at least - it is well bound in logic.
One need only consider the odds for its antithesis to conclude in its sobering: john doe appears in a far away galaxy's planet, and by a great co-incidence, found a jane doe there too. Really?!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Buzsaw, posted 01-18-2008 8:41 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Buzsaw, posted 01-19-2008 2:44 PM IamJoseph has not replied

  
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