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Author Topic:   What is the soul?
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1780 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 136 of 165 (448502)
01-13-2008 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Buzsaw
01-13-2008 7:12 PM


Re: Eve
Adam was a male-female, dual-gendered entity, which became seperated later ['Man and woman created he them'/Gen 1/1].

Whether one accepts this or not, it appears a very logical premise w/o any alternative. Consider the odds of its alternative: two entities of exactingly equal counter-part traits - among billions of life forms! And when's the last time we saw such an occurence? Genesis makes remarkable logic here, and appears to have addressed this pivotal question with an answer which caters to a host of other issues.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Buzsaw, posted 01-13-2008 7:12 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by ICANT, posted 01-14-2008 11:00 PM IamJoseph has not yet responded
 Message 138 by Buzsaw, posted 01-18-2008 8:41 PM IamJoseph has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 137 of 165 (448714)
01-14-2008 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by IamJoseph
01-13-2008 8:16 PM


Re: Eve
Hi Joseph,

IamJoseph writes:

created he them'/Gen 1/1.

Gene 1:1 (KJV) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Not quite what you ascribed to Genesis 1:1.

But:

Gene 1:27 (KJV) So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The original word translated man here is the same as mankind.
If that is so then God created a male mankind and a female mankind.

Have fun,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 138 of 165 (449725)
01-18-2008 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by IamJoseph
01-13-2008 8:16 PM


Re: Eve
That's as obsurd as saying because a girl's father sired her, he was both a male and a female.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by IamJoseph, posted 01-13-2008 8:16 PM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by IamJoseph, posted 01-18-2008 10:15 PM Buzsaw has responded

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1780 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 139 of 165 (449765)
01-18-2008 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Buzsaw
01-18-2008 8:41 PM


Re: Eve
No sir. The said premise is limited to the first emergent entity of a life form only, namely that a male did not arrive, then an exact counterpart female arrive, they shook hands and said, wow - what a co-incidence to meet you. It means there is no ONE in the universe, and all actions are based on a duality factor. This applies to all life forms, and all non-bio components.

It does not mean a girl's father is both male and female, but that the girl emerged from a male and female union, and when tracked to its original first entity, the male and female were a duality which became seperated. This is no alternative to this logic; at least - it is well bound in logic.

One need only consider the odds for its antithesis to conclude in its sobering: john doe appears in a far away galaxy's planet, and by a great co-incidence, found a jane doe there too. Really?!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Buzsaw, posted 01-18-2008 8:41 PM Buzsaw has responded

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 140 of 165 (449873)
01-19-2008 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by IamJoseph
01-18-2008 10:15 PM


Re: Eve
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IamJoseph writes:

No sir. The said premise is limited to the first emergent entity of a life form only, namely that a male did not arrive,...

Joseph I understand ".....male and female created he them," but whataheck does the above say and mean? :confused:


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by IamJoseph, posted 01-18-2008 10:15 PM IamJoseph has not yet responded

  
Recon3rd
Member (Idle past 3954 days)
Posts: 35
Joined: 03-01-2008


Message 141 of 165 (460461)
03-15-2008 9:13 AM


spirit-soul-body
According to Scripture what we are is a spirit and we live in a body and we have a soul. The spirit is WHAT we are the body is WHERE we live and the soul is WHO we are and connects us to the physical world and the spirit world.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.(1 Thess 5:23)

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.(Heb 4:12)

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. (2 Cor 5:1)

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. (2 Cor 5:6)

God is a three person entity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We were created in His image, His Image is 3 in 1 our image is also 3 in 1.

peace


    
Recon3rd
Member (Idle past 3954 days)
Posts: 35
Joined: 03-01-2008


Message 142 of 165 (460809)
03-19-2008 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by jaywill
03-16-2006 8:17 AM


Jaywill-

It is very clear in the New Testament that the human soul and the human spirit are not identical compenants of the human make up.

There are verses there however, which arguably might seem to contradict this even in the New Testament.

Because I don't believe that man's make up changes from one period of time to another, therefore what is soul and spirit in man in the New Testament must also have been soul and spirit previously.

Having said that it is not reasonable for me to think that the human make up changed from Old Testament times to New Testament times, the revelation of the difference between human soul and human spirit is not as pointed in the Old Testament as in the New. But there are some clear verses that I believe show that there is a difference.

God breathed into man the breath of life and man became a living soul. Like you I take this to mean that God imparted something into man's body and the contact between it and man's body brought about the existence of a third matter - man's soul. The union between the breath of God and the frame of man's body caused man to become a living soul.

Now all the verses in the Old Testament are not this clear. So I think that the revelation of the distinction of soul and spirit in man runs concurrently with the gradual and progressive revelation of the nature of God's full salvation. As the nature of God's salvation is progressively revealed more and more as the Bible progresses so also the tripartite nature of man is made more and more clear.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: (Gen 1:26)

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen 2:7)

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow (Heb 4:12)

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess 5:23)

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:26)

Seems like we ARE spirits and we do live in a body, it's the spirit that gives the body life and when that life begins it produces the soul which is WHO we are. Our soul makes us who we are and is influenced by our body and our spirit. If you allow your body to control your soul and block the spirit you're only getting half of the information to make a decision.

peace


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Hawkins
Member (Idle past 686 days)
Posts: 150
From: Hong Kong
Joined: 08-25-2005


Message 143 of 165 (484628)
09-30-2008 5:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by DeclinetoState
03-16-2006 2:15 AM


quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Hebrew (as in English) the soul and the spirit are represented by different words (I believe ruach and nefesh, respectively). Does this mean that the soul and the spirit are different things? I tend to think they are, possibly that the soul is what you get when you combine the spirit with the body.
The Skeptics Dictionary treats soul and spirit as being the same thing, as do some (many? most?) Christians, like Billy Graham. Obviously, I don't agree with that interpretation.

I do think there is an immaterial something or other that accounts for my ability to know that I exist. I don't know if I would identify it with either the soul or the spirit.

Unless there is some compelling and cogent reason to do otherwise, this discussion should go into the Bible Study forum.


They are different. We are made in God's image. Soul, spirit and body are of our trinity nature. Soul will carry your senses (may exclude some such as taste and smell, perhaps), it carries your consciousness and memory. It carries more senses for you to exist outside this 3D world, so that you can perceive more spaces such as the Third Heaven or Hades.

I think (speculate actually) that our spirit will return to God after depature, it carries our earthly emotions (and perhaps some other things we might not know).


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vincent2008
Junior Member (Idle past 3748 days)
Posts: 3
From: New York
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 144 of 165 (486529)
10-22-2008 5:41 AM


Soul
When a person is alive we call him man. When a person after die we call it is a soul. It does not contains body. It is roaming everywhere like a smoke.
===============================================================
Advertising removed

Edited by AdminNosy, : No reason given.


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1.61803
Member
Posts: 2823
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 145 of 165 (486567)
10-22-2008 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by vincent2008
10-22-2008 5:41 AM


Re: Soul
Vincent:
quote:
When a person is alive we call him man. When a person after die we call it is a soul. It does not contains body. It is roaming everywhere like a smoke.
Then what is the status of someone who is clinically brain dead?
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 Message 146 by Agobot, posted 10-22-2008 2:27 PM 1.61803 has responded

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 3641 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 146 of 165 (486569)
10-22-2008 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by 1.61803
10-22-2008 2:23 PM


Re: Soul
Then what is the status of someone who is clinically brain dead?

Brain-dead means dead.


"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind"

"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever - This is a somewhat new kind of religion"

-Albert Einstein


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 Message 145 by 1.61803, posted 10-22-2008 2:23 PM 1.61803 has responded

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1.61803
Member
Posts: 2823
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 147 of 165 (486570)
10-22-2008 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Agobot
10-22-2008 2:27 PM


Re: Soul
agobot:
quote:
Brain-dead means dead.
Thanks for the clarification. So if dead then does the soul leave the person who is being artificially ventilated and sustained with drugs, but whos bodys is still alive?
This message is a reply to:
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AlphaOmegakid
Member (Idle past 987 days)
Posts: 564
From: The city of God
Joined: 06-25-2008


Message 148 of 165 (488460)
11-11-2008 5:32 PM


Back to what is a Soul!
I'm getting started way late in this thread, and I haven't read all of it. However, it is my opinion that the false understanding of what the soul is, has led to much confusion within Christianity. It also leads to many false doctrines.

So I will attempt to explain the soul in simple terms for all the readers. I will be more specific with scripture if people respond further....

The soul (nephesh OT and psuche NT) in simplest terms is a person.

A living person on this earth is a soul. They have a body (the flesh) and a spirit (ruach OT and pneuma NT). The spirit is the life force that we all have. When we die the spirit leaves the flesh. At this time the soul and the spirit are synonyms, and the words are used interchangeably in the scriptures.

At the resurrection, the spirit will be reunited with incorruptible flesh for those in Christ and it will be reunited with corruptible flesh for those outside of Christ.

The soul is not immortal. Immortality (eternal life) is a gift. Those in Christ have two spirits: theirs and the Holy Spirit.

Now the Greek and Hebrew are very similar to the English word "soul". We use this word properly all the time.

“The stadium is filled with 50,000 souls.” (the soul is a person)

“Grandma is a good ole soul.” (the soul is a person)

“When I die, my soul will live with God.” (my personal spirit which has been separated from my flesh lives with God)

The concept is really quite simple, but the Church teachings on this subject have really messed it up. Comments anyone?


Replies to this message:
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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1213 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 149 of 165 (488694)
11-14-2008 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by AlphaOmegakid
11-11-2008 5:32 PM


Re: Back to what is a Soul!
They have a body (the flesh) and a spirit (ruach OT and pneuma NT). The spirit is the life force that we all have. When we die the spirit leaves the flesh. At this time the soul and the spirit are synonyms, and the words are used interchangeably in the scriptures.

This is probably in unanswerable question but if this indeed is what the soul is can anyone provide solid scientific evidence of its existence?

I hope I am not straying to far from the topic subject and am kind of new here but I thought this would be a pertinent and rather intellectual discussion.


"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." Dr. Carl Sagan
This message is a reply to:
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 407 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 150 of 165 (488696)
11-14-2008 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by DevilsAdvocate
11-14-2008 9:16 PM


Re: Back to what is a Soul!
Hello DevilsAdvocate! First of all welcome to EvC!

DevilsAdvocate writes:

This is probably in unanswerable question but if this indeed is what the soul is can anyone provide solid scientific evidence of its existence?


No. No one can. Since the soul is something supernatural, it does not fall in the realm of science, and thus, leaves no evidence.

I hope I am not straying to far from the topic subject and am kind of new here but I thought this would be a pertinent and rather intellectual discussion.

Yes. But it is foremost a philosophical discussion. So, discussion's ok, but evidence should not be required.


I hunt for the truth
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