Why read the Bible literally: take two

So what you are saying is if we were "perfect" - we could have sex with our parents and children?Hum.....Oh and can I borrow your time machine...

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if science doesn't recognize it, eventually science will run into more and more inexplicables

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Argument to the Future: You commit this fallacy if you claim that your worldview will soon prevail because the evidence is in the making - your victory is just round the corner. Pseudosciences do this all the time.SLOT88 Situs Judi Slot Online Terpercaya No 1 di Indonesia

Plenty of double-speak in there:

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No you couldn't "have sex with" parents and children, that NEVER happened, but you could MARRY a sister, not "have sex with" -

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Right so if I'm perfect I can marry my sister and have sex with her?

People are perfect in heaven - so jesus is getting a little booty right?
(unless he's God and all that...)

I am always serious - the logical outcome of your answer that perfect people can sleep with family members and anyone else that crosses their path surely means that people in heaven can sleep with family members.I'm sorry that you don't think I'm serious but those seem to be logical next steps in regards to your current story about 900 old perfect people.

how can it be "as usual" - we have exchanged about 4 posts about the matter. What a strange comment to make!People don't have sex in heaven? Can you point me towards the chapter in the bible that states this? I've had a quick look and can't find it.I can see that this is conversation is making you angry and upset - so we will speak of it no more.This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 01-Jul-2005 03:50 PMThis message has been edited by Charles Knight, 01-Jul-2005 03:51 PM

many thanks ...but if marriage doesn't exist..... How can it unlawful to break a law that doesn't exist?So it could be that everyone is getting it on with everyone or nobody is getting it on with no-one.I guess we will never know....

deleted by author - why bother?This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 01-Jul-2005 04:21 PM

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When the ark was completed God told Noah toput into it one pair (or, according to some renderings of the words in the Koran, two pairs) of every species of living thing and to take with him his family and those who believed. According to the Arabic story Noah had a fourth son named Canaan (or, according to some, a grandson, as in the Bible), who was an idolater and would not enter the ark when Noah called to him, declaring his intention to climb a mountain out of reach of the water. But even as he was speaking a wave came and destroyed him. Noah had also another wife, named Waila, who was likewise an infidel and who perished with her son; she and Lot's wife are symbols of unfaithfulness (sura lxvi. 10).

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Besides Noah's family the Arabs suppose that seventy-two other persons were saved in the ark. These were persons who had been converted by Noah's preaching. However, they did not beget children after leaving the ark, and hence all mankind descended from Noah's three sons. Gabriel brought Adam's body in a coffin to be placed in the ark; it served to separate the men from the women in the middle story of the ark; the beasts were placed in the lowest story and the birds in the top (Baiḍawi). Pigs and cats were created in the ark to consume the filth and the rats (Ṭabari, l.c. p. 112). Noah was five or six months in the ark. He embarked at Kufa, after which the ark proceeded to Mecca and circled around the Kaaba, and finally settled on Mount Judi in Armenia, in the district of Mosul (Mas'udi, "Les Prairies d'Or," i. 74). Noah first sent out a raven to explore, and cursed it because the bird stopped to feast on a carcass; he then sent out a dove, and blessed it because it returned to him. Hence doves have always been liked by mankind. God commanded the earth to absorb the water, and certain portions which were slow in obeying received salt water in punishment and became dry and arid; the water which was not absorbed penetrated into the depths of the earth and formed the seas, so that the waters of the Flood still exist (Mas'udi, l.c. p. 75).

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Noah left the ark on the tenth day of Muḥarram. He and his companions built at the foot of Mount Judi a town which received its name, Thamanim ("eighty"), from their number. Noah is said to have written ten books of prophetic teachings, which have been lost.

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NOAH - JewishEncyclopedia.comThis message has been edited by Charles Knight, 02-Jul-2005 06:28 AM

Steve - you aware of the "statement of faith" that all of the TCJ editors sign (if not I'll paste it for you)?How can you be invovled in science if you have to agree the answers before you conduct the research?

I do not understand how a single line of that actually engages with my question?Let me expand on my early post:TCJ offers the following statement of faith for it's editors and authors:

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Statement of Faith
(A) PRIORITIES

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1. The scientific aspects of creation are important, but are secondary in importance to the proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as Sovereign, Creator, Redeemer and Judge.
2. The doctrines of Creator and Creation cannot ultimately be divorced from the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

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(B) BASICS

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1. The 66 books of the Bible are the written Word of God. The Bible is divinely inspired and inerrant throughout. Its assertions are factually true in all the original autographs. It is the supreme authority, not only in all matters of faith and conduct, but in everything it teaches. Its authority is not limited to spiritual, religious or redemptive themes but includes its assertions in such fields as history and science.

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2. The final guide to the interpretation of Scripture is Scripture itself.

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3. The account of origins presented in Genesis is a simple but factual presentation of actual events and therefore provides a reliable framework for scientific research into the question of the origin and history of life, mankind, the Earth and the universe.

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4. The various original life forms (kinds), including mankind, were made by direct creative acts of God. The living descendants of any of the original kinds (apart from man) may represent more than one species today, reflecting the genetic potential within the original kind. Only limited biological changes (including mutational deterioration) have occurred naturally within each kind since Creation.

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5. The great Flood of Genesis was an actual historic event, worldwide (global) in its extent and effect.

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6. The special creation of Adam (the first man) and Eve (the first woman), and their subsequent fall into sin, is the basis for the necessity of salvation for mankind.

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7. Death (both physical and spiritual) and bloodshed entered into this world subsequent to, and as a direct consequence of, man’s sin.

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(C) THEOLOGY

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1. The Godhead is triune: one God, three Persons”God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

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2. All mankind are sinners, inherently from Adam and individually (by choice) and are therefore subject to God’s wrath and condemnation.

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3. Freedom from the penalty and power of sin is available to man only through the sacrificial death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, and His complete and bodily Resurrection from the dead.

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4. The Holy Spirit enables the sinner to repent and believe in Jesus Christ.

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5. The Holy Spirit lives and works in each believer to produce the fruits of righteousness.

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6. Salvation is a gift received by faith alone in Christ alone and expressed in the individual’s repentance, recognition of the death of Christ as full payment for sin, and acceptance of the risen Christ as Saviour, Lord and God.

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7. All things necessary for our salvation are set down in Scripture.

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8. Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary.

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9. Jesus Christ rose bodily from the dead, ascended to Heaven, is currently seated at the right hand of God the Father, and shall return in like manner to this Earth as Judge of the living and the dead.

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10. Satan is the personal spiritual adversary of both God and man.

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11. Those who do not believe in Christ are subject to everlasting conscious punishment, but believers enjoy eternal life with God.

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(D) GENERAL

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1. The following are held by members of the Board of Answers in Genesis to be either consistent with Scripture or implied by Scripture: Scripture teaches a recent origin for man and the whole creation.

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2. The days in Genesis do not correspond to geologic ages, but are six [6] consecutive twenty-four [24] hour days of Creation.

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3. The Noachian Flood was a significant geological event and much (but not all) fossiliferous sediment originated at that time.

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4. The ”gap’ theory has no basis in Scripture.

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5. The view, commonly used to evade the implications or the authority of Biblical teaching, that knowledge and/or truth may be divided into ”secular’ and ”religious’, is rejected.

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6. By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.

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Let's try and engage with my actual questions this time, your answers should not contain the words "evolution, secular, evolutionist" because I am asking you about creation science. If it IS a valid science, it had to be able to stand or fall by it's own validity NOT by the evidence/lack of evidence for another theory/viewpoint? Agreed?So do you feel that giving your "researchers" explicit guidelines (presented above in bold) on what the answers to your research MUST BE is an example of good science and good practice in general?This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 07-Sep-2005 05:20 PMThis message has been edited by Charles Knight, 07-Sep-2005 05:22 PMThis message has been edited by Charles Knight, 07-Sep-2005 05:24 PM

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I know of creationists who have been kicked out of scientific organisations because they didn't toe the party line re. evolution, despite not signing anything ahead of time

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Can you provide us a solid example of this? not something close to this situation but an actual "this member was expelled for being a creationist".It seems to me that you are slightly confused about how members of academic communities interact with each other.This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 07-Sep-2005 05:50 PM

See that's the sort of response that gives creationists a bad name - piss on the pot or get off it.Pop over to the science forums and present some of this evidence.

How disgusting - man walking on water - fine, man returning from the dead - fine, man able to raise the dead - fine.Another culture has a 100ft bear but some reason this is a matter of fun.