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Author Topic:   The Problems with Genesis: A Christian Evolutionist's View
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 200 (588707)
10-27-2010 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by granpa
10-27-2010 4:21 PM


there are 3 possibilities that I can think of offhand.
1. they werent in the original at all
2. they were in the original but were on the first day rather than the 4th (I am leaning toward this possibility)
3. they are a poor translation of some obscure words whose meaning we cant even guess at (yet).
What about, simply, the Bible being wrong here?
Or is that just not a possibility?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by granpa, posted 10-27-2010 4:21 PM granpa has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by granpa, posted 10-27-2010 4:41 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 200 (588714)
10-27-2010 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by granpa
10-27-2010 4:41 PM


it is wrong there.
the question is why is it wrong there?
Because it was written a very long time ago, before scientific advancement.
Its a myth about creation, not a fact book.
We'd expect there to be inaccuracies.
ABE:
This is what the writers thought they were working with:
Of course they'd get parts wrong!
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : see ABE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by granpa, posted 10-27-2010 4:41 PM granpa has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 148 of 200 (691782)
02-25-2013 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by kofh2u
02-22-2013 12:57 PM


Re: Not a Time-Line
3.I realize that the Bible writers would have had to avoid saying "and that was "the evening of the Hadean Era and the morning of the Archean era," simply because these facts would not be known to the readers until this last century.
They wouldn't be known to the writers either! And if God magically poofed that knowledge into the writers' minds, then he could have done it to the readers too. As you have it, God has tricked all those ancient Jews and is a prankster.
4. These opportunities to understand the Bible as literally true "makes me think the evening-and-morning language does not specify a normal series of 24 hour days" as opposed to the other personal and subjective choice to oppose logic, common sense, reason, and scientific facts.
Why are you assuming that the Bible is literally true?
It should be obvious to you from all the mental gymnastics that you have to go through, that it actually isn't and you're just doing what you have to in order to make it look like it is. But you're only fooling yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by kofh2u, posted 02-22-2013 12:57 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by kofh2u, posted 03-03-2013 6:29 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 154 of 200 (692507)
03-04-2013 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by kofh2u
03-03-2013 6:29 PM


Re: Not a Time-Line
You didn't answer my question:
Why are you assuming that the Bible is literally true?
They wouldn't be known to the writers either! And if God magically poofed that knowledge into the writers' minds, then he could have done it to the readers too. As you have it, God has tricked all those ancient Jews and is a prankster.
Probably not,
Blasphemy. How dare you speak for the almighty God and place limits upon his powers.
the writers were just taking dictation.
Does God have a mouth with a tongue in it? Or does he shoot magic mind words straight into their brains?
You realize that you don't know this stuff and are just making it up, right?
But the actual author would have realized he could not have said things that no one could possible relate to directly, and so the literary art of chosing word with a double intendre, a meaning for them but cleverly, a deeper meaning for us today.
Yeah, your god is a prankster.
Awesome magic powers to control humans and make them write magical books, not to mention the creation of the universe, but too impotent to tell his story without lying to an entire culture of people. A culture, by the way, who has been lead to think they are his chosen ones while actually getting the whole story entirely wrong.
Hmph, you're god is really kind of a dick.
Why would he do that to them? Certainly he has the power to do it some other way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by kofh2u, posted 03-03-2013 6:29 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by kofh2u, posted 03-04-2013 1:27 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 156 of 200 (692533)
03-04-2013 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by kofh2u
03-04-2013 1:27 PM


Re: ..."the Kingdom of God is within"...
The writers of the Bible were consciously setting down ideas and thoughts that came to them from the ancient of anciets who we call the phylogenetic Unconscious mind.
That part of our psyche, (soul), is regenerated by the genetic code and born again in every baby brought forth out of the womb back into the living.
So then I've got a few thousand years on them...
Its apparent that they got a lot of stuff wrong. Why are you assuming that they got everything right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by kofh2u, posted 03-04-2013 1:27 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by kofh2u, posted 03-06-2013 5:42 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 173 of 200 (692788)
03-07-2013 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by ringo
03-07-2013 11:20 AM


Re: truth...
I don't think they got anything wrong.
But you desperately want that to be true. This isn't some conclusion that's be arrived at. Its an assumption you make a priori.
I believe that the way they phrased things, and their clever choice of words with a duality in their synonyms, allowed them to express what we would realize on the one hand, was scientifically and academically correct.
You mean, you can interpret the words to be so vague that practically any explanation can fit within them. You just happen to choose ones that you think are scientifically and academically correct.
While on the other hand, this allowed for the misconceptions of ancient peoples, throughout all the generations previous to our own to assume what they thought was what the Bible writers meant.
So we've got all these Jews, who according to your ideas, were tricked by god into believing that the Bible says a bunch of stuff that it doesn't really mean. This complete ruse by your god has cost them their place in eternity just so that god's message can be kept secret until you come along and figure it all out. I don't see how you can respect that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by ringo, posted 03-07-2013 11:20 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by kofh2u, posted 03-07-2013 2:28 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 176 of 200 (692795)
03-07-2013 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by kofh2u
03-07-2013 2:28 PM


Re: truth...
You worship a prankster god.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by kofh2u, posted 03-07-2013 2:28 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by kofh2u, posted 03-07-2013 5:17 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 178 of 200 (692821)
03-07-2013 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by kofh2u
03-07-2013 5:17 PM


Re: truth...
That your god has performed some pranks doesn't necessitate that everything they've said is a prank.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by kofh2u, posted 03-07-2013 5:17 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by kofh2u, posted 03-07-2013 5:53 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 181 of 200 (692897)
03-08-2013 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by kofh2u
03-07-2013 5:53 PM


Re: truth...
What pranks???
The one's I've be mentioning. Have you not been paying attention? Do you need me to quote myself back to you?
You call god a name and then refer to that as a charge against him.
I do not call God a name, I call the god that you made up a name.
What I read from he things you post is that you respond to things that church peple say about what they think the Bibketells us about this God.
Then you take what theysay, as you did here with what you say, and condemn god.
I'm not condemning God, I condemn the gods that you invent and only when they deserve it.
What is it in the Bible that makes you say these things?
It isn't anything in the Bible that makes me say these things. Its the stuff that you write here that makes me say these things.
They call the Bible the Word of God, so it is only fair that you take him at that word and tell us what is your complaint against him?
Not you go on the offensive tactic. My attacks on your words are being said to be an attack on God himself.
You fail to keep your own self included in the equation. How arrogant are you that you think that your own words actually come from God? Now you're blaspheming the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin.
Look, I'll say it again. You offer that the Bible is written in a way that the ancient Jews could understand the words but also so that modern scientific understanding can mesh with the words. Since the Jews don't agree with you, then they must have been hoodwinked by god. Its the logical outcome of your scenario. You have yet to address it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by kofh2u, posted 03-07-2013 5:53 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by kofh2u, posted 03-08-2013 1:20 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 189 of 200 (693192)
03-12-2013 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by kofh2u
03-08-2013 1:20 PM


Re: truth...
The one's I've be mentioning. Have you not been paying attention? Do you need me to quote myself back to you?
Yes, I need to read exactly what you say I am saying so I can understand what your complaint against that is.
sigh
From Message 154:
quote:
Yeah, your god is a prankster.
Awesome magic powers to control humans and make them write magical books, not to mention the creation of the universe, but too impotent to tell his story without lying to an entire culture of people. A culture, by the way, who has been lead to think they are his chosen ones while actually getting the whole story entirely wrong.
Hmph, you're god is really kind of a dick.
Why would he do that to them? Certainly he has the power to do it some other way.
From Message 173:
quote:
So we've got all these Jews, who according to your ideas, were tricked by god into believing that the Bible says a bunch of stuff that it doesn't really mean. This complete ruse by your god has cost them their place in eternity just so that god's message can be kept secret until you come along and figure it all out. I don't see how you can respect that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by kofh2u, posted 03-08-2013 1:20 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by kofh2u, posted 03-13-2013 8:13 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 198 of 200 (693350)
03-14-2013 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by kofh2u
03-13-2013 8:13 PM


Re: dumb stuff...
the nonsense you post here.
That's rich coming from you.
1) How difficult was it for the Jews to recognize that the bible says don't act like the fornicating, women chasing, sexually promiscuous neighboring pagan societies that had to abort the fatherless babies that resulted from such behaviors?
That's not what were talking about. You've admitted that it was impossible for the Jews to recognize your modern scientific interpretations of the Bible. And that means that God tricked them into thinking it meant something else.
2) What kind of trick is played on people when the real story is told to them, but in a way they can grasp at the time?
Because, according to your position, they got it completely wrong to the point that it cost them their place in eternity. That's what makes your god so bad. He tricked an entire culture into damnation.
That seems to be a way for God to demonstrated how arrogant and dumb people are, fixed in their mind and ready to crucify anyone who even tries to correct what they foolishly bought into from some other men.
No, according to you:
quote:
3.I realize that the Bible writers would have had to avoid saying "and that was "the evening of the Hadean Era and the morning of the Archean era," simply because these facts would not be known to the readers until this last century.
The facts had to be obfuscated, according to you. People weren't capable of understand the Truth. Its not their fault that they were tricked into believe the Bible meant something that it really didn't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by kofh2u, posted 03-13-2013 8:13 PM kofh2u has not replied

  
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