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Author Topic:   The Problems with Genesis: A Christian Evolutionist's View
willietdog
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 200 (447038)
01-07-2008 8:39 PM


Hi, I'm a Christian Evolutionist, which to me means that I beleive in a non literal interpretation of Genesis. I have been studying this for quite awhile and am about to start writing a blog on the subject. I thought I would throw some of my ideas out there about how I find the genesis stories of creation to be entirely inaccurate. I would appreciate it if you would try to answer some of the problems I have found with the stories. this will really help me when starting my blog in what I should write about.

Please note first my view on evolution. I find the theory of evolution to have some problems but over all a well tested and sound theory and the most likely out their at the present time. As for how I deal with it as a Christian I find that it seems a little odd but not impossible it happened entirely naturally and believe that in order for what we have today to have formed it had to have help. the process is sound but I don't believe it was random. I do not believe in a young earth I have a hard time believing its as young as it is. but on to the topic just don't accuse me of being bias, I am fully both and my religious beliefs have never effected my science.

Problems with Genesis:
1.Genesis says God created the Earth in 6 days. YEC's beleive that the earth is 6,000y/o their are stars in the sky further than 6,000 light years away but we can see them. one gamma ray burst was several billion light years away. but nothing has ever been seen that out dates our current estimated age of the universe and much evidence supports it. on top of that there are many other dating methods that easily out date 6,000 years. nothing can support a 6,000 y/o earth and everything contradicts it. that in and of itself proves that Genesis 1 has some errors in it. if it has one how many others could it have?

Genesis 1:3 ("Let there be Light") and Genesis 1:14-19 (creation of sun moon and stars) are used in the next two points.
2.How can there be light before there is a source?
3.we have all most fool proof evidence that the sun is older than the earth and that it is easily older than 6,000 y/o but this says earth was created first.

Genesis 1:20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky."

Genesis 1:23 "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind."

4.We have clear fossil records that prove that life was created in this order: fish, then land animal, then bird not fish + bird then land animal

5. this is getting to long so im not going to even list all the numerous contradictions between the two stories of creation in genesis.

6. intelligent design says that after the flood the animals on the ark being the last animals on earth went through a rapid "super evolution" where on average by my calculations 1 new species emerged every 20 hours. this is not including extinctions. conservative estimates can say 1 every 1.6 days but I couldn't get any more than 1.2 no matter how hard I tried. now if you all this happen directly after the flood to explain why this rate isn't still happening you get around speeds 10x that giving you around one speciation every 3 hours and 50 min. This is IMPOSSIBLE by any logic or reason and especially not with science. evolution says (by my calculations) that a speciation occurs on average every 316.6 years (much more likely)
here is a youtube video that shows super evolution being taught at the creationist museum in cincinati only afew hours from where I live (sadly I missed my chance of going)

Please note that even I find this a litle bias but I do have to admit from what I heard this place needs help. and I find it sad that we as Christians have ignored the truth that is staring us right in the face and have had to desperately come up with these things and call them "science" They aren't trying to attack our religion their just smart enough to see reason.

Ive got plenty more which I might edit into this later but for now I think I've made my point. again I would love your opinions into this matter. if you have any more contradictions please post them. If I ever find the time to write in my blog ill make sure to post a link here. thanks for reading.

BTW: I know nothing I have said are new ideas. I even got some of them from places like this or the youtube video I posted. but none of them are without hours of time spent pondering them and researching them. I'm no noob. I do have to admit though I am not a scientist (yet) but I don't think you need a degree to do what I have done and research the facts and present them.

Edited by willietdog, : spelling

Edited by willietdog, : No reason given.


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willietdog
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 200 (447049)
01-07-2008 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by willietdog
01-07-2008 8:39 PM


After reading some of the other threads that were rejected i have decided to present my view on how I believe you can believe that the bible is the word of god and still see these impossible errors. The answer to me is quite simple It has to do with who it was being written to. The Hebrews of the time of Moses were as primitive as it comes in the way of science and knowledge, certain things were unfathomable to them that were crucial in the explanation of the beginning of the universe. one of these was time. no one back then could imagine anything near as long as this suggests. so what is God to do to explain this? he changes 4.5 billion years into 6 days. obviously a day is much easier to comprehend, a dog can comprehend a day. this also allowed him to set up the idea of the sabbath on the 7th day. so that solves the problem of an old earth contradicting the bible but the story also seems to be in the wrong order when viewed from a scientific standpoint. as i mentioned light should be after stars, birds after animals, and several others i didn't get into. but when you look at it from an historical standpoint it is written in a way in which they could easily relate to. they likely believed that light was the essence of everything or something to that extent i don't know but it seems like if i were trying to relate to them that would be what i put first because light is the most fundamental mentioned. because of helocentrism they must have believed that the earth being the center of everything was created first, even before the sun, moon, and stars. birds must have been put before animals because the sea and the sky were created before land to them or something to that extent. and man was molded out of the clay separate from all creation and special because we were made in gods image. I have to admit i don't know much about this aspect of this because I haven't researched it these are all my own ideas but the point i was trying to make is the genesis story was not made to convey how god created the universe but more of how and why and was written in a way all could understand.

Edit: I also realize what i said here could be used as a way to show that the bible is not the word of god. this is not my intention but rather an unfortunate possibility which i do not believe. none the less we can neither prove nor disprove the supernatural because science by definition is a way of learning about the natural world.

Edited by willietdog, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by willietdog, posted 01-07-2008 8:39 PM willietdog has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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willietdog
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 200 (447054)
01-07-2008 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by willietdog
01-07-2008 8:39 PM


I was again reading another topic here in the forums and the admins asked him to post what math he used so that others may check it. I think this is a very good idea and will do the same.

quote:
intelligent design says that after the flood the animals on the ark being the last animals on earth went through a rapid "super evolution" where on average by my calculations 1 new species emerged every 20 hours. this is not including extinctions.

the number of years since the flood (around 4000) divided by the number of species estimated to currently be in existence (around 1.8 million) and i then converted that number into hours (*364*24)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by willietdog, posted 01-07-2008 8:39 PM willietdog has not yet responded

  
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