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Author Topic:   The Problems with Genesis: A Christian Evolutionist's View
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 165 of 200 (692675)
03-06-2013 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by jaywill
03-06-2013 12:12 PM


Re: truth...
jaywill writes:
And this concept you have written is a little t truth or a big T Truth ?
As I said, all real truth is little-t truth, observable truth, repeatable truth.
jaywill writes:
This is of course assuming that the second person is interested in having that experience. Upon being advized, for reasons of his own, he may decide to go the other way and not repeat what was claimed to be experienced.
That's a copout. You're claiming that anybody who doesn't confirm your claims has an ulterior motive. That in itself is just another unconfirmed claim.
You don't have to be able to demonstarte your claims to everybody but it also isn't enough to demonstrate your claims to somebody. You have to be able to demonstrate your claims to a group of more-or-less randomly-chosen people and they have to come to a consensus. Think of it like jury selection.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by jaywill, posted 03-06-2013 12:12 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by jaywill, posted 03-06-2013 12:44 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 167 of 200 (692678)
03-06-2013 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by jaywill
03-06-2013 12:44 PM


Re: truth...
jaywill writes:
I think you would have to admit that Truth can be known by something like a jury - a subset of all the people.
No. A jury can only come as close as possible to objective truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by jaywill, posted 03-06-2013 12:44 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by jaywill, posted 03-06-2013 2:02 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 171 of 200 (692762)
03-07-2013 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by jaywill
03-06-2013 2:02 PM


Re: truth...
jaywill writes:
Does either statement represent your belief:
Big T Truth does not exist ?
Or big T Truth exists but no one can know big T Truth ?
No. Neither represents my position. I would say that if big-t Truth exists, we have no way of knowing what it is. Human perception deals only with small-t truth and small-t truths don't add up to big-t Truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by jaywill, posted 03-06-2013 2:02 PM jaywill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-07-2013 2:07 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 172 of 200 (692765)
03-07-2013 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by kofh2u
03-06-2013 5:36 PM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality
kofh2u writes:
First, one must answer whether he accepts the axiom, that Reality exists, is the same for everyone, whether they recognize that entity or not.
Again, we have to distinguish between big-r Reality and small-r reality.
Everybody has his own small-r reality. Small-r reality is different in the Sahara desert from what it is in New York City. Small-r reality is different for a blind person and a sighted person.
If big-r Reality exists, we have no way of perceiving it. It isn't "real" in the same sense as small-r reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by kofh2u, posted 03-06-2013 5:36 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by kofh2u, posted 03-07-2013 2:30 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 180 of 200 (692887)
03-08-2013 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by kofh2u
03-07-2013 2:30 PM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality
kofh2u writes:
It does not matter, nor does Reality depend in anyway, upon whether you or mankind perceives it.
So you definitely are saying that there is an Absolute Reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by kofh2u, posted 03-07-2013 2:30 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by kofh2u, posted 03-08-2013 1:22 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 184 of 200 (693138)
03-11-2013 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by kofh2u
03-08-2013 1:22 PM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality
kofh2u writes:
ringo writes:
So you definitely are saying that there is an Absolute Reality.
Of course not.
That would be grammatically redundant.
"Large elephant" is redundant but it's also true.
What you are describing definitely is an absolute reality, a reality which is "beyond" what can be observed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by kofh2u, posted 03-08-2013 1:22 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by kofh2u, posted 03-11-2013 12:27 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 186 of 200 (693145)
03-11-2013 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by kofh2u
03-11-2013 12:27 PM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality
kofh2u writes:
You are entitled to inaist upon ignorance here, but even elephants come in small, large, and larger whereas Truth only comes in NOT false, and Reality is ONLY what actually exists.
Even a "small" elephant is pretty large.
Size is relative and so are "truth" and "reality". There's the truth and reality that we can agree on - such as the existence of France - and then there's the "truth" and "reality" inside your head.
If you can't demonstrate something as true or real, it might was well be a three-inch elephant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by kofh2u, posted 03-11-2013 12:27 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by kofh2u, posted 03-11-2013 5:08 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 190 of 200 (693199)
03-12-2013 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by kofh2u
03-11-2013 5:08 PM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality
kofh2u writes:
There is Truth and there is Reality.
There is no degree of either.
Things either exist or they do not and are not real.
Things are either true or they are not, regardkless of have close to being true the erroneous concept may be.
You are describing something that is absolute.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by kofh2u, posted 03-11-2013 5:08 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by kofh2u, posted 03-13-2013 8:03 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 196 of 200 (693334)
03-14-2013 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by kofh2u
03-13-2013 8:03 PM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality
kofh2u writes:
That is exactly why I said you are being redundant to say absolute Reality or absolute Truth.
There's nothing redundant about it. What you call Reality, a "reality" that includes God, is an absolute reality. But a reality that is based on a consensus of perception is an approximate reality, so it's important to make the distinction.
What you call Reality is not real in any real sense. Realistically, the only thing we can ever do is approximate reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by kofh2u, posted 03-13-2013 8:03 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by kofh2u, posted 03-14-2013 1:33 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 200 of 200 (693443)
03-15-2013 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by kofh2u
03-14-2013 1:33 PM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality
kofh2u writes:
I can't keep telling you the same thing again and again, only to have you return with attempts to cloud the simplest ideas.
The trouble with simple ideas is that they're often too simple-minded. As I've been saying, a consensus of understanding is more reliable than your own simplistic ideas.
kofh2u writes:
"The Problems with Genesis: A Christian Evolutionist's View" is that nitwits still insist on accepting ancient, medieval archaic, pre-modern science interpretations of the Bible.
Any literature should be interpreted in the context that it was intended. The nit-witted approach is to assume that the Bible was written for a 21st-century audience.
There is no reason to think the Bible contains any absolute truth. Even if it did, science doesn't concern itself with absolute truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by kofh2u, posted 03-14-2013 1:33 PM kofh2u has not replied

  
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