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Author Topic:   The Problems with Genesis: A Christian Evolutionist's View
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 181 of 200 (692897)
03-08-2013 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by kofh2u
03-07-2013 5:53 PM


Re: truth...
What pranks???

The one's I've be mentioning. Have you not been paying attention? Do you need me to quote myself back to you?

You call god a name and then refer to that as a charge against him.

I do not call God a name, I call the god that you made up a name.

What I read from he things you post is that you respond to things that church peple say about what they think the Bibketells us about this God.
Then you take what theysay, as you did here with what you say, and condemn god.

I'm not condemning God, I condemn the gods that you invent and only when they deserve it.

What is it in the Bible that makes you say these things?

It isn't anything in the Bible that makes me say these things. Its the stuff that you write here that makes me say these things.

They call the Bible the Word of God, so it is only fair that you take him at that word and tell us what is your complaint against him?

Not you go on the offensive tactic. My attacks on your words are being said to be an attack on God himself.

You fail to keep your own self included in the equation. How arrogant are you that you think that your own words actually come from God? Now you're blaspheming the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin.

Look, I'll say it again. You offer that the Bible is written in a way that the ancient Jews could understand the words but also so that modern scientific understanding can mesh with the words. Since the Jews don't agree with you, then they must have been hoodwinked by god. Its the logical outcome of your scenario. You have yet to address it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by kofh2u, posted 03-07-2013 5:53 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by kofh2u, posted 03-08-2013 1:20 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2610 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 182 of 200 (692917)
03-08-2013 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by New Cat's Eye
03-08-2013 12:19 PM


Re: truth...

The one's I've be mentioning. Have you not been paying attention? Do you need me to quote myself back to you?

Yes, I need to read exactly what you say I am saying so I can understand what your complaint against that is.

This nonsense about how little you think of me, based on whatever you may have said to others means nothing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-08-2013 12:19 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2013 11:19 AM kofh2u has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2610 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 183 of 200 (692920)
03-08-2013 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by ringo
03-08-2013 11:36 AM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality

So you definitely are saying that there is an Absolute Reality.

Of course not.
That would be grammatically redundant.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by ringo, posted 03-08-2013 11:36 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by ringo, posted 03-11-2013 12:23 PM kofh2u has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18877
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 184 of 200 (693138)
03-11-2013 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by kofh2u
03-08-2013 1:22 PM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality
kofh2u writes:

ringo writes:

So you definitely are saying that there is an Absolute Reality.


Of course not.
That would be grammatically redundant.

"Large elephant" is redundant but it's also true.

What you are describing definitely is an absolute reality, a reality which is "beyond" what can be observed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by kofh2u, posted 03-08-2013 1:22 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by kofh2u, posted 03-11-2013 12:27 PM ringo has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2610 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 185 of 200 (693140)
03-11-2013 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by ringo
03-11-2013 12:23 PM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality

"Large elephant" is redundant but it's also true.
What you are describing definitely is an absolute reality, a reality which is "beyond" what can be observed.

You are entitled to inaist upon ignorance here, but even elephants come in small, large, and larger whereas Truth only comes in NOT false, and Reality is ONLY what actually exists.

There are NOT two kinds of Truth nor two types of Reality.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by ringo, posted 03-11-2013 12:23 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by ringo, posted 03-11-2013 1:03 PM kofh2u has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18877
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 186 of 200 (693145)
03-11-2013 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by kofh2u
03-11-2013 12:27 PM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality
kofh2u writes:

You are entitled to inaist upon ignorance here, but even elephants come in small, large, and larger whereas Truth only comes in NOT false, and Reality is ONLY what actually exists.


Even a "small" elephant is pretty large.

Size is relative and so are "truth" and "reality". There's the truth and reality that we can agree on - such as the existence of France - and then there's the "truth" and "reality" inside your head.

If you can't demonstrate something as true or real, it might was well be a three-inch elephant.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by kofh2u, posted 03-11-2013 12:27 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by kofh2u, posted 03-11-2013 5:08 PM ringo has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2610 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 187 of 200 (693166)
03-11-2013 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by ringo
03-11-2013 1:03 PM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality

There's the truth and reality that we can agree on - such as the existence of France -

and then there's the "truth" and "reality" inside your head.

There is Truth and there is Reality.

There is no degree of either.
Things either exist or they do not and are not real.
Things are either true or they are not, regardkless of have close to being true the erroneous concept may be.

In one's head, the spirit of mind could be true or false.
But there is never Reality in your head.

Reality is always "out there."

Reality is out there, where your seven senses tell you about it.
You construct an image that you believe corresponds to that real thing out there.

If you are wise, you do so using the Scientific Method.

.
.
God is all there is, ie; Reality itself... the whole external existence beyond our mind is the almighty God to which all life must bow:

...Truth inside our head, is the Holy Spirit, the image of God, almighty Reality, and is present inside our mind when our thinking correctly images the TRUTH, or the picture of Reality inside our mind.
//////

TRINITY:
Our (1) Lord is Truth, in whose (2) Spirit of mind we must commit our lives, in order to face (3) Father Nature, the Almighty Reality, within which we all exist.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by ringo, posted 03-11-2013 1:03 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Eli, posted 03-12-2013 8:41 AM kofh2u has not yet responded
 Message 190 by ringo, posted 03-12-2013 12:19 PM kofh2u has responded

  
Eli
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 188 of 200 (693177)
03-12-2013 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by kofh2u
03-11-2013 5:08 PM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality
Why are you still referring to perception as "truth"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by kofh2u, posted 03-11-2013 5:08 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 189 of 200 (693192)
03-12-2013 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by kofh2u
03-08-2013 1:20 PM


Re: truth...

The one's I've be mentioning. Have you not been paying attention? Do you need me to quote myself back to you?

Yes, I need to read exactly what you say I am saying so I can understand what your complaint against that is.

sigh

From Message 154:

quote:
Yeah, your god is a prankster.

Awesome magic powers to control humans and make them write magical books, not to mention the creation of the universe, but too impotent to tell his story without lying to an entire culture of people. A culture, by the way, who has been lead to think they are his chosen ones while actually getting the whole story entirely wrong.

Hmph, you're god is really kind of a dick.

Why would he do that to them? Certainly he has the power to do it some other way.


From Message 173:

quote:
So we've got all these Jews, who according to your ideas, were tricked by god into believing that the Bible says a bunch of stuff that it doesn't really mean. This complete ruse by your god has cost them their place in eternity just so that god's message can be kept secret until you come along and figure it all out. I don't see how you can respect that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by kofh2u, posted 03-08-2013 1:20 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by kofh2u, posted 03-13-2013 8:13 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18877
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 190 of 200 (693199)
03-12-2013 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by kofh2u
03-11-2013 5:08 PM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality
kofh2u writes:

There is Truth and there is Reality.

There is no degree of either.
Things either exist or they do not and are not real.
Things are either true or they are not, regardkless of have close to being true the erroneous concept may be.


You are describing something that is absolute.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by kofh2u, posted 03-11-2013 5:08 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by kofh2u, posted 03-13-2013 8:03 PM ringo has responded

  
WarriorArchangel
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 14
From: Lynn MA US
Joined: 03-02-2013


Message 191 of 200 (693224)
03-12-2013 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by willietdog
01-07-2008 8:39 PM


"Intelligence doesn't evolve. It's embedded in the womb, and will learn to its capacity." That truism puts evolution down the toilet.
For Christ Jesus' sake we are 99.8% Neanderthal genome! How the hell did that happen? Any ideas......?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by willietdog, posted 01-07-2008 8:39 PM willietdog has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Rahvin, posted 03-12-2013 6:18 PM WarriorArchangel has not yet responded

  
Rahvin
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


(1)
Message 192 of 200 (693233)
03-12-2013 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by WarriorArchangel
03-12-2013 5:36 PM


"Intelligence doesn't evolve. It's embedded in the womb, and will learn to its capacity." That truism puts evolution down the toilet.

This is what's called "presuming your conclusion." That's not a "truism." It's a claim. Intelligence is an extremely broad term (sufficiently so that in its colloquial use it's nearly meaningless), and even allowing for the wide variety of meanings it can selectively convey, intelligence varies widely within species, let alone between them.

For Christ Jesus' sake we are 99.8% Neanderthal genome! How the hell did that happen? Any ideas......?

It's rather obvious: we share a relatively recent common ancestor, and our ancestors may have interbred with Neanderthals as well.

After all, we're genetically nearly identical to chimpanzees. A strong genetic similarity to other hominids like Neanderthals is more than simply obvious, it's expected. It's a core prediction of evolutionary theory as it pertains to human evolution, one that has been validated by the very genetic evidence you find to be so shocking.

Edited by Rahvin, : Fixed a formatting tag.


“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by WarriorArchangel, posted 03-12-2013 5:36 PM WarriorArchangel has not yet responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2610 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 193 of 200 (693302)
03-13-2013 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by ringo
03-12-2013 12:19 PM


Re: ... truth... the image of Reality

kofh2u writes:
There is Truth and there is Reality.

There is no degree of either.
Things either exist or they do not and are not real.
Things are either true or they are not, regardkless of have close to being true the erroneous concept may be.

ringo:
You are describing something that is absolute.

Hahaaaaa....

That is exactly why I said you are being redundant to say absolute Reality or absolute Truth.

Both concepts are already absolutes.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by ringo, posted 03-12-2013 12:19 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by ringo, posted 03-14-2013 11:47 AM kofh2u has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2610 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 194 of 200 (693303)
03-13-2013 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by New Cat's Eye
03-12-2013 11:19 AM


dumb stuff...

1) So we've got all these Jews, who according to your ideas, were tricked by god into believing that the Bible says a bunch of stuff that it doesn't really mean.

2) This complete ruse by your god has cost them their place in eternity just so that god's message can be kept secret until you come along and figure it all out. I don't see how you can respect that?

Now we can get on the same page and analyze the nonsense you post here.

1) How difficult was it for the Jews to recognize that the bible says don't act like the fornicating, women chasing, sexually promiscuous neighboring pagan societies that had to abort the fatherless babies that resulted from such behaviors?

2) What kind of trick is played on people when the real story is told to them, but in a way they can grasp at the time?
People trick themselves by faith in some guys interpretation of the story which they defend religiously, long after it is clear he was full of crap.

That seems to be a way for God to demonstrated how arrogant and dumb people are, fixed in their mind and ready to crucify anyone who even tries to correct what they foolishly bought into from some other men.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2013 11:19 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Eli, posted 03-13-2013 10:12 PM kofh2u has not yet responded
 Message 198 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-14-2013 2:33 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
Eli
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


(1)
Message 195 of 200 (693305)
03-13-2013 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by kofh2u
03-13-2013 8:13 PM


Re: dumb stuff...
1) How difficult was it for the Jews to recognize that the bible says don't act like the fornicating, women chasing, sexually promiscuous neighboring pagan societies that had to abort the fatherless babies that resulted from such behaviors?

Probably very difficult considering that the bible did not forbid unlimited wives (King David, for example) and never said anything about abortions or fatherless babies.

Some people are so ignorant and dumb that they cannot be corrected, even when the correction is obvious.

Tell us, is it cruel of God to show everyone but you that you are wrong, so that you never receive correction, reproof, knowledge or truth? Does He have a point in allowing you to miserably fail in every false claim you insist on making? Since you are unlearned and unable to be taught, wouldn't He be acting for His own amusement rather than for your or anyone else's benefit?

We have all witnessed how arrogant in your ignorance you are. The joke is over. There is nothing left to see. We aren't laughing.

Why does God need to repetitively show us something we already know? Your God is not kind to you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by kofh2u, posted 03-13-2013 8:13 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
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