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Author
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Topic: How do you decide what is True in the Bible? Part 2
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EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6113 days) Posts: 111 From: Phoenix, Arizona USA Joined: 07-22-2005
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Message 1 of 48 (233191)
08-14-2005 4:58 PM
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How about a approving a continuation of How do you decide what is True in the Bible?? AbE - Last message from the above thread - Message 308moved by AA
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1362 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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knock yourself out, it's your turn. 
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EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6113 days) Posts: 111 From: Phoenix, Arizona USA Joined: 07-22-2005
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Before we continue...
I gather you either do not understand or do not accept dual application verses. In your reply, Message 297 to my post, you concentrated on three terms while totally ignoring others. You referenced KING OF TYRE, MAN, and KING OF BABYLON but made no mention of, or apparently gave no weight of understanding to the following descriptions, which I would now like you to address one by one. I have provided an "easier to read" version here so as not to further add to anyones confusion but please feel free to use what ever version is most appealing to you when addressing the following references.
1. Thou sealest up the sum 2. Full of wisdom 3. Perfect in beauty 4. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God 5. Every precious stone was thy covering 6. The workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created 7. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth 8. Thou wast upon the holy mountain of God 9. Thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire 10. perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee 11. I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire 12. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty 14. Thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness 15. I will cast thee to earth, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee Please address these fifteen individual references, explaining how every one of them is applicable to the "human" King of Tyre. Once you have accomplished that we can move on to additional references in Isaiah and elsewhere.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 4 by jar, posted 08-16-2005 8:53 PM | | EltonianJames has replied | | | Message 5 by arachnophilia, posted 08-16-2005 9:17 PM | | EltonianJames has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 413 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Before we continue...
Well, it looks like your dealing with Ezikiel 28 instead of Genesis which was what lead to your post in the other thread. It's not that long so here is the whole thing.
Ezekiel 28 1The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 2Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: 3Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee: 4With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures: 5By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches: 6Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; 7Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. 8They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas. 9Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee. 10Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. 11Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. 20Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 21Son of man, set thy face against Zidon, and prophesy against it, 22And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Zidon; and I will be glorified in the midst of thee: and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall have executed judgments in her, and shall be sanctified in her. 23For I will send into her pestilence, and blood into her streets; and the wounded shall be judged in the midst of her by the sword upon her on every side; and they shall know that I am the LORD. 24And there shall be no more a pricking brier unto the house of Israel, nor any grieving thorn of all that are round about them, that despised them; and they shall know that I am the Lord GOD. 25Thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob. 26And they shall dwell safely therein, and shall build houses, and plant vineyards; yea, they shall dwell with confidence, when I have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they shall know that I am the LORD their God. When you read the whole chapter it seems pretty clear that it certainly is talking about the very human King of Tyre. If you want to cherry pick and quote mine, how would the following apply to Jesus?
18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1362 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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reading comprehension
I gather you either do not understand or do not accept dual application verses. such is illogical. a verse cannot literally be referring to two things. for instance, dual-application is commonly used to make certain verses seem like prophecy of christ (after the fact) the prior to christ had no messianic meaning at all. for instance, this verse is common used:
quote:
Zec 11:13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty [pieces] of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
but if you read zechariah 11 it has nothing to do with messiahs at all, let alone jesus. it seems that at best the authors of the nt are invoking the language the of the ot, or at worst are parodying christianity by picking random mentions of similar things. why not use the following verse?
quote:
Exd 21:32 If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.
the context is about the same.
You referenced KING OF TYRE, MAN, and KING OF BABYLON but made no mention of, or apparently gave no weight of understanding to the following descriptions, which I would now like you to address one by one. immaterial. the passage is pretty clearly metaphorical or allegorical. the indication that the "you" it's addressed to is the king of tyre (as are the preceeding two chapters, btw). this is not even a point of contention -- it's what the bible says. you argue that
quote:
O mortal, say to the prince of Tyre: "Thus says the Lord GOD: ..."
means something other than "say to the prince of tyre?" what do you honestly think it means?
I have provided an "easier to read" version here so as not to further add to anyones confusion but please feel free to use what ever version is most appealing to you when addressing the following references. your version is not easier to read. so, yeah, lets look at a few of these then.
4. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God find me a chapter and a verse that says that satan was in the garden of eden. let's look at what was in eden, the garden of god, that actually fits the description provided in ezekiel 28.
quote:
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
look. cherubim. who are there to protect eden. sound familiar? is ezekiel describing a snake? or ezekiel describing a fallen angel? you can't have this one both ways -- no dual application here. it's one of the other. i don't think god left the snake in charge of protecting eden after punishing him for messing with the people.
7. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth oh, look, fast forward a bit. clearly invoking this:
quote:
Exd 25:20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth [their] wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces [shall look] one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
not satan either.
8. Thou wast upon the holy mountain of God quote:
Exd 3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, [even] to Horeb.
what's satan doing on mount horeb/sinai?
9. Thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire just as a personal bet, i bet you can't tell me what these are. i have a good guess.
Please address these fifteen individual references, explaining how every one of them is applicable to the "human" King of Tyre. Once you have accomplished that we can move on to additional references in Isaiah and elsewhere. no, see, that's just plain silly. it's completely out of context. the context here SAYS LITERALLY that the taunts are about the king of tyre. the bible disagrees with you. the only acceptable reading is that the poetry refers to the king of tyre metaphorically, invoking previous imagery. and what's even more interesting is that that imagery is *NOT* satan. it's somethign else. satan, traditionally, is not a cherub. satan was not assigned to protect eden (quite the opposite). satan was not on the top of the ark of covenant. satan was not decorated with the jewels of the high priest of israel (oh hell, i gave it away). these are ALL after the supposed fall of satan, which is either before or just after man's fall according to the dogma. it's the fact that this is a reference to a fallen angel that makes people think this. it's verses like this:
15. I will cast thee to earth, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee can you not read the sarcasm and the mocking tone even through the translation and the metaphor? you, king of tyre, you think you're so high and mighty. you think you're a god, or an angel protecting your people, but you've failed and god will cast you back down to earth. it's describing the way the king of tyre thinks of himself, not the way he is. it's making fun of him. it's satire. imagine someone who read jonathan swift like this. how many people do you suspect died opening their eggs on the wrong end?
אָרַח
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1362 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Message 6 of 48 (233864)
08-16-2005 9:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 4 by jar
08-16-2005 8:53 PM
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Re: Before we continue...
When you read the whole chapter it seems pretty clear that it certainly is talking about the very human King of Tyre. i think the very first few verse are enough: "go make fun of the king of tyre with this" honestly, i don't see how it can mean anything else besides, i dunno, what it actually says.
אָרַח
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4 by jar, posted 08-16-2005 8:53 PM | | jar has not replied |
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EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6113 days) Posts: 111 From: Phoenix, Arizona USA Joined: 07-22-2005
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Message 7 of 48 (233892)
08-16-2005 11:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 4 by jar
08-16-2005 8:53 PM
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Dealing with Ezekiel
jar writes: Well, it looks like your dealing with Ezikiel 28 instead of Genesis... Yes, but we can still cover the lingering questions regarding the Genesis creation account but I wanted to get others take on what I understand to be dual application areas of scripture.
jar writes: When you read the whole chapter it seems pretty clear that it certainly is talking about the very human King of Tyre. And you are right, it is speaking of the very "human" King of Tyre (or Tyrus), however I believe it is also speaking of lucifer as some of the context clearly cannot be applied to any human King and yet can be applied to lucifer. Also.I do not consider it "cherry picking" to look for the deeper meanings in scripture when a surface reading raises questions that demand an answer. Questions such as... 1. When was the King of Tyre ever in Eden, the Garden of God? We know from scripture that satan(lucifer) was there. 2. When was the King of Tyre ever an "Annointed Cherub" or "Covering Cherub"? 3. When was the King of Tyre "created" as was Adam and not "born" as was every man since Adam, including Jesus?
jar writes: If you want to cherry pick and quote mine, how would the following apply to Jesus?
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Other than the fact that it is the pre-incarnate Jesus, the Word of God, the Logos speaking here, I am not sure where you are trying to go with this but I suggest extreme caution on your part. If you are trying to draw a parallel between these verses and Jesus' dealing with the money changers or even with the rebellious nation of Israel as a whole then forget it, it doesn't fit with the rest of scripture. Israel is still the covenant nation by virtue of the Abrahamic covenant.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4 by jar, posted 08-16-2005 8:53 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 8 by jar, posted 08-16-2005 11:21 PM | | EltonianJames has replied | | | Message 13 by arachnophilia, posted 08-17-2005 3:46 AM | | EltonianJames has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 413 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Dealing with Ezekiel
Not at all. The verses are simply a continuation of the chapter. If the earlier ones refer to Jesus then those apply to Jesus. The others are but using flatery as was common in addressing or speaking of people in high places and in fact, most likely making fun of Tyre. In this message and the previous on I'm only dealing with Ezekeil. It's mockery, that's all.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6113 days) Posts: 111 From: Phoenix, Arizona USA Joined: 07-22-2005
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Re: reading comprehension
I am not sure where you got the idea that the term "Cherub" as I outlined it was only referring to satan in his pre-fallen state. I thought you said you were studying Hebrew. You didn't even try to honestly address the references I posted. Please do not attempt to waste my time again. Either get serious or move on to someone with as little understanding of the scriptures as you have shown here. You should be ashamed.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein
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jar
Member (Idle past 413 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 10 of 48 (233897)
08-16-2005 11:26 PM
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I'm outta here.
This is obviously going nowhere.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6113 days) Posts: 111 From: Phoenix, Arizona USA Joined: 07-22-2005
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Message 11 of 48 (233902)
08-16-2005 11:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 8 by jar
08-16-2005 11:21 PM
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Re: Dealing with Ezekiel
Okay, that makes no sense to me. The King of Tyre, like lucifer, being puffed up by his high position, sought even to elevate himself to the level or position of God, thus the parallel and dual application. Cherubim are special creatures, never equated with Gods' earthly creation as equals. Never are humans portrayed as somehow being worthy, in their fallen state and simply by virtue of their created status, as able to enter into the very presense of God as are the Cherubim. Their is no degree of flattery being given the King of Tyre. Rather, God is pointing out how much satans' rebellion cost him and equating that, in human terms, to how much the King of Tyre shall also lose, going from a position of high authority to the depths of utter destruction. God is not the author of confusion as some would like to present Him. Shall we move on to our discussion regarding Genesis or is there more here you would like to discuss?
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 8 by jar, posted 08-16-2005 11:21 PM | | jar has not replied |
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1362 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Re: reading comprehension
I am not sure where you got the idea that the term "Cherub" as I outlined it was only referring to satan in his pre-fallen state. so satan was protecting eden in his post-fallen state? remember, that's what this is about, protecting eden. i never said satan couldn't be *A* cherub, just not the one in question.
I thought you said you were studying Hebrew. no. give me five days or so though.
You didn't even try to honestly address the references I posted. yes, actually, i did. why you can't understand that "go taunt the king of tyre with this" means it's about the king of tyre, i don't know. it's very obviously invoking the language and imagery of older stories -- i even pointed out WHICH previous stories. and not a one of them has to do with satan, and one of them cannot be satan (if satan is also the snake. pick one and stick to it) rather, YOU have not addressed anything at all. you have not provided a single rational reason why this taunt could be anything other than what it literally says it's about -- the king of tyre. you have not shown how this fits into the traditional satan mythology in modern dogma. you have not shown ways to work out the inconsistencies between this taunt and the common satan mythos. so here's a list for you:
- why is satan gaurding eden post-fall-of-man?
- why is satan at mount sinai?
- why is satan adorned with the jewels of the high priest of israel?
- why is satan described in terms of the ark of the covenant?
- why is the satan addressed as "the prince of tyre?"
show me how those fit into the tradition of satan.
Please do not attempt to waste my time again. Either get serious or move on to someone with as little understanding of the scriptures as you have shown here. You should be ashamed excuse me? i am serious. you're the one waving reason and evidence in favor of god-know-what. address my points, or don't waste MY time. i have no reason to be ashamed, but i shouldn't have to teach a pastor with 30 years of schooling under his belt how to read. This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 08-17-2005 03:29 AM
אָרַח
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 9 by EltonianJames, posted 08-16-2005 11:23 PM | | EltonianJames has not replied |
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1362 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Re: Dealing with Ezekiel
i'll respond to question with questions.
1. When was the King of Tyre ever in Eden, the Garden of God? We know from scripture that satan(lucifer) was there. this one is a double whammy. 1. show me the verse where satan is in the garden of eden. 2. show me the verse where satan is called lucifer.
2. When was the King of Tyre ever an "Annointed Cherub" or "Covering Cherub"? 3. when was satan? see, you're suffering from the over-literal fallacy. i can do it right back at you all day. i'm gonna risk an "ad hominem of the month" nomination/violation for this, to prove a point. "oh, eltonianjames. how wise and wonderfully schooled you are. look at your wonderful accomplishments! you've graduated from seminary with honors and parades, headed your own church for a century of the most fruitful accomplishments for the name of christ! how glorious your faith is that you inspire so many like yourself to impart their knowledge and understanding of the scriptures to others! how beautiful your message, and how loving and compassionate your judgement! "it's really too bad that you're completely wrong."
quote:
Main Entry: sarcasm
Pronunciation: 'sr-"ka-z&m
Function: noun 1 : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2 a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b : the use or language of sarcasm
it doesn't carry so well in textual form, but it's a really good way to make fun of somebody. and since this whole section of ezekiel is TAUNTS -- making fun of people -- sarcasm is right at home in ezekiel 28. so ezekiel (or god, or whomever) is invoking this wonderful imagery to make a point. the point, is, and i quote from job:
quote:
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding
the point is that the king of tyre is NOT a gaurdian cherub. that's the joke, you see. he was NOT there in eden, and he was NOT there on horeb, and he was NOT the high priest of israel in desert. it's belittling him with irony. it's sarcasm. and more importantly, the king of tyre is LESS than a cherub, whom god punished adam with. he is LESS than moses whom god punished. and he is LESS than aaron, whom god punished. these are the great accomplishments of the israelites -- and god punished them when they fouled up. why would he spare the king of tyre, who is not his beloved people, not his cherub, not his moses, and not his aaron. what does god care about the king of tyre? This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 08-17-2005 04:06 AM
אָרַח
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by EltonianJames, posted 08-16-2005 11:09 PM | | EltonianJames has not replied |
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1362 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Re: Dealing with Ezekiel
Okay, that makes no sense to me. The King of Tyre, like lucifer, being puffed up by his high position, sought even to elevate himself to the level or position of God, thus the parallel and dual application. the "lucifer" verse is, guess what, another taunt against a king. but you have the idea right! other kings in the region tended to refer to themselves as gods. the hebrews didn't like that: the only recognized ONE god, and how dare these mortals claim to be his equal! so they like to write them nasty notes to put them in their place.
Cherubim are special creatures, never equated with Gods' earthly creation as equals. they say the cherubs on the ark of covenant were embracing, symbolizing the divine origin of mariage. cherubs, btw, are also god's creations -- they are like men in the aspect that they were created. do you agree?
Never are humans portrayed as somehow being worthy, in their fallen state and simply by virtue of their created status, as able to enter into the very presense of God as are the Cherubim. you know, the bible is a good book. you should read it sometime. because LOTS of people enter the presence of god. let's start with an obvious example:
quote:
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him.
that's only 5 chapters in. i'm sure you've read that far. walking with god. going with god (somewhere). keep in mind, the hebrews don't seem to believe in a "heaven" in the christian sense. people go to sheol when they die. sheol means "grave" and is the origin of our word "hell." heaven is where god lives. so lets see some people go to heaven, shall we?
quote:
2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
how about some people who enter god's presence on earth?
quote:
Lev 16:2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy [place] within the vail before the mercy seat, which [is] upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.
moses is in god's presence all the time. but aaron can't be. only sometimes. so who can enter god's holy presence? psalms to the rescue!
quote:
Psa 24:3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
Psa 24:4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
Their is no degree of flattery being given the King of Tyre. no, their isn't. ezekiel (or god, or whatever) is mocking the flattery HE EXPECTS. he's making fun of him with flattery. how much of what i wrote about you was genuine flattery, do you suspect?
Rather, God is pointing out how much satans' rebellion cost him except that you've not shown a SINGLE REFERENCE TO SATAN. the rest of the point is sort of right though:
and equating that, in human terms, to how much the King of Tyre shall also lose, going from a position of high authority to the depths of utter destruction. quite.
God is not the author of confusion as some would like to present Him. you're the one who's confused. i don't think god wrote a confusing book. but then again, i don't think god wrote a book, period. more correctly stated, i don't think EZEKIEL wrote a confusing book. i think it's pretty clear what's going here. especially if you've read the rest of ezekiel -- which is rather heavy-handed with the metaphors.
Shall we move on to our discussion regarding Genesis or is there more here you would like to discuss? please do. start with the verse in genesis that mentions the name "ha satan."
אָרַח
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EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6113 days) Posts: 111 From: Phoenix, Arizona USA Joined: 07-22-2005
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Message 15 of 48 (234063)
08-17-2005 11:10 AM
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Before we continue...
While doing a little research this morning for an upcoming conference, I stumbled upon some sites that confirm what I have always known about fringes! I do not have the time today to continue the discussion going on here so I thought I would give you guys something to look at while I am busy with other things. I am sure there are probably hundreds, if not thousands of sites like these but it is not neccessary to provide any more than these two for you to get the gist of the plethora of ideas and opinions out there.
Amazing what typing one simple word into a search engine will bring up.
Simply right click the image, open the link in a new window, and enjoy the madness. Back after the conference.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein
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