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Author Topic:   Why did they cover their nakedness?
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 45 of 81 (492541)
01-01-2009 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
05-22-2008 4:56 AM


before the event of eating the forbidden fruit, both Adam & Eve lived as dependents on God... he was their teacher and his standards of good and bad were all they knew... nakedness being a normal and good part of their lives
But upon disobedience, they had stepped out from dependence and became independent
The immediate effect was Adam and Eve could no longer look upon each other’s unclothed bodies in a pure way. Their guilty conscience made them feel unclean, and so the first thing they did was cover themselves in fig leaves
it really comes down to guilt. they knew they had done a bad thing in disobeying Gods command not to eat from the tree, and so they felt shame.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by cavediver, posted 05-22-2008 4:56 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by cavediver, posted 01-01-2009 8:57 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 48 of 81 (492549)
01-01-2009 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by jaywill
01-01-2009 9:13 AM


Re: Who told you ... ?
very good analysis jaywill
the scripture goes on to say
At that he said: “Who told you that you were naked? From the tree from which I commanded you not to eat have you eaten?
so this tree represented something very important...it represented Gods right to be the judge of what is good and bad. Previously, under Gods direction nakedness was not an issue, but now suddently it was an issue.
it seems that after they had partaken of the fruit, it immediately caused a change in their thinking and attitude. It made them hide themselves from God, and judging by Gods question to them
'From the tree from which I commanded you not to eat, have you eaten?
it was their independent actions and disobedience that caused the change.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by jaywill, posted 01-01-2009 9:13 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 49 of 81 (492553)
01-01-2009 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by cavediver
01-01-2009 8:57 AM


they certainly must have had sexual desire but it seems sex was not the focus of their relationship for they had not had sex previously. Actually genesis says that they had sex for the first time AFTER they left the garden of eden

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by cavediver, posted 01-01-2009 8:57 AM cavediver has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 58 of 81 (492684)
01-02-2009 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Blue Jay
01-01-2009 7:05 PM


Re: A whole lotta Love
i know you've asked for jaywill to respond, but i'd like to answer this one and compare my understanding with jaywills
Mantis writes:
If Adam and Eve had not eaten of the fruit, what would have happened? Would we all be living in the Garden of Eden right now? My church maintains that we would not have existed, because procreation was not possible until after the Fall (maybe they didn't even have reproductive parts to be ashamed of?---that's a weird thought).
If Adam had refused to follow Eve and get kicked out of the Garden, what would have become of them (and us)?
1. Procreation was always on the cards for Adam & Eve. the command God gave them was not only to abstain from eating of the tree but to
Gen 1:27And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28Further, God blessed them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it
the only way to become many was by using their reproductive systems, so they must have had them and sex was a part of their ability to reproduce.
2. We can only speculate on what might have happened had Adam not followed his wife into disobedience. But there are a few facts we could consider to decipher a very possible outcome.
Eve was the first to eat from the fruit, but notice how God did not appear to her immediately to ask her what she had done. It was only when Adam had eaten from the fruit that God came to speak with Adam.
God knew that eve had been deceived by the serpent because the apostle spoke of this centuries later when he said
1Timothy2:12'I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and came to be in transgression.
So lets say that Adam did not follow her into disobedience, God would have had no reason to punish him with the consequences of sin (death) So that just leaves us with the question of what might have happened to eve.
If she was decieved but repentant, God may have shown her mercy and forgiven her, allowing her to remain with Adam in the garden...or he may have ended her life immediately and provided Adam a new wife
One thing we do know for sure is that if neither of them had fallen from Gods favor, then they would still be alive today as the original parents to all of us... and quite a few billion more people... and the whole earth would be a garden of eden.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Blue Jay, posted 01-01-2009 7:05 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Bailey, posted 01-02-2009 1:48 PM Peg has replied
 Message 60 by Blue Jay, posted 01-02-2009 2:02 PM Peg has replied
 Message 66 by shalamabobbi, posted 01-19-2009 1:08 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 63 of 81 (492807)
01-03-2009 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Bailey
01-02-2009 1:48 PM


Re: sado masochistic religion seeking god - apply within
hi bailey.
could you possibly put my name on the quote box's that are actually mine so i dont get confused lol
speculating doesnt produce theology unless it becomes official teaching...thats not my purpose here
i see we hold very different views on the account...but i do agree with you that we should definitely test and examine the scriptures.
cheers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Bailey, posted 01-02-2009 1:48 PM Bailey has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 64 of 81 (492808)
01-03-2009 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Bailey
01-01-2009 1:50 PM


Re: mercy trumps judgement
Adam should have held greater affection and loyalty to his Father. but instead he chose eve over God
im sure you'd agree that loyalty to God is the most important thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Bailey, posted 01-01-2009 1:50 PM Bailey has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 65 of 81 (492810)
01-03-2009 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Blue Jay
01-02-2009 2:02 PM


Re: A whole lotta Love
Mantis writes:
basically, God set Eve up, and the serpent informed her of this, and she gave in to his temptation. And, after Eve took of the fruit, Adam knew he had to as well.
wow, i've never actually looked at specific beliefs of the Mormons...thats surprising. I know you guys use the book of mormon and its obviously different to the bible account.
Looking at the vs in Genesis, the only thing that you could deduct is that 1. they were not allowed to eat from the tree
2. if they did, they would die
“From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.””Genesis 2:16, 17.
it stands to reason that had they obeyed, they would not have died. therefore, life was dependent on obedience and loyalty to God...his continued blessing would be the reality, only if they obeyed his 1 command
but it is interesting mantis, thanks for sharing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Blue Jay, posted 01-02-2009 2:02 PM Blue Jay has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 67 of 81 (494826)
01-19-2009 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by shalamabobbi
01-19-2009 1:08 AM


Re: A whole lotta Love
shalamabobbi writes:
You do see a logical problem here?
No death combined with unlimited reproduction?!
im not sure that would be a problem
the direction God gave to Adam was to 'fill' the earth' and subdue it.
if i asked you to 'fill' my cup, im sure you wouldnt keep pouring something into it once it was filled.
women do naturally go thru menopause... my guess is that this function is in place for a reason.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by shalamabobbi, posted 01-19-2009 1:08 AM shalamabobbi has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by shalamabobbi, posted 01-19-2009 1:30 AM Peg has replied
 Message 69 by Rahvin, posted 01-19-2009 7:26 PM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 70 of 81 (495738)
01-24-2009 5:53 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by shalamabobbi
01-19-2009 1:30 AM


Re: A whole lotta Love
shalamabobbi writes:
At some point the process of having children has to stop. Is that fair for the late comers? They can't have families? They have to wait until menopause sets in to enjoy companionship?
when and if this planet becomes full, who's to say that God will not create more planets for human habitation? The universe is always growing...its expanding as we speak
so why should he stop at one if its within his power?
Perhaps he has other plans? But i seriously doubt that it will be a problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by shalamabobbi, posted 01-19-2009 1:30 AM shalamabobbi has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 71 of 81 (495739)
01-24-2009 5:58 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Rahvin
01-19-2009 7:26 PM


Re: A whole lotta Love
ravin writes:
Arguably, humans already are overpopulated, but immortality makes the issue exponentially worse.
The only possible solutions would be to magically create more space/food/whatever (admittedly not beyond the powers of an omnipotent deity), leave Earth and support overflow population in space habitats/other worlds/etc, or simply turn off the ability to procreate at all.
And of course the second option only postpones the problem. Given unlimited time
the earth is not really overpopulated. The problem is that we all group together in one place. Look at the small area of the Gaza strip...their is over a million palestinians living there, yet their is a vast landscape all around them uninhabited. Its the same all over the world. Its something like 5% of Australia is inhabited...the rest is empty
there is more then enough room on this earth for everyone alive now and everyone who has ever lived if they spread out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Rahvin, posted 01-19-2009 7:26 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Vacate, posted 01-24-2009 6:07 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 73 of 81 (495758)
01-24-2009 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Vacate
01-24-2009 6:07 AM


Re: A whole lotta Love
well how big is the earth?
197,000,000 square miles in area.
less the 71 percent which is water .
thats a land surface of about 57,000,000 square miles or approx 36,000,000,000 acres.
divide that by 6 billion odd inhabitants and they get at least 6 acres of land each. That's a hell of a lot of land to live on... land that has the ability to produce food under the right conditions.
certainly not impossible

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 Message 72 by Vacate, posted 01-24-2009 6:07 AM Vacate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by bluescat48, posted 01-24-2009 7:21 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 75 of 81 (495772)
01-24-2009 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by bluescat48
01-24-2009 7:21 AM


Re: A whole lotta Love
hi bluescat,
yeah i agree... it would be physically impossible with the way the world is now
but we know that there have been times when the sahara desert was lush and green... it would take some drastic changes, but for a bible student, there is nothing impossible for God to do
if he could create a life sustaining atmosphere, surely he can make adjustments to the climate of the world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by bluescat48, posted 01-24-2009 7:21 AM bluescat48 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by purpledawn, posted 04-16-2009 11:30 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 77 of 81 (505984)
04-21-2009 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by purpledawn
04-16-2009 11:30 AM


Re: Tree of Knowledge
purpledawn writes:
Because then they knew right from wrong. This is what happens when we over analyze a story. God is the author of right and wrong according to you, so you tell me why he allowed them to run around naked. You've been shown the scripture where God said they knew what he knew about good and evil. Stop changing the story!
God allowed them to run around naked, not because it was bad, but because it was good in his eyes.
In turning away from Gods knowledge, they adopted their own form of knowlegde. A knowledge that was different to Gods knowledge. Hence why the decided nakedness was bad.
Now this could have something to do with Gods knowledge being within the mind and heart of A&E in their perfect condition. But upon their rebelling, they lost that internal Godly knowledge and had to rely on their own.
No magic fruit im afraid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by purpledawn, posted 04-16-2009 11:30 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Perdition, posted 04-21-2009 10:40 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 79 by purpledawn, posted 04-21-2009 1:55 PM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 80 of 81 (506054)
04-22-2009 4:39 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by purpledawn
04-21-2009 1:55 PM


Re: Tree of Knowledge
purpledawn writes:
The story wasn't written for us today, it is a foundational myth of an ancient culture.
and yet here we are in 2009 still wearing clothes

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by purpledawn, posted 04-21-2009 1:55 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by purpledawn, posted 04-22-2009 7:05 AM Peg has not replied

  
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