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Author Topic:   Why did they cover their nakedness?
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1716 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 46 of 81 (492542)
01-01-2009 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Peg
01-01-2009 8:50 AM


The immediate effect was Adam and Eve could no longer look upon each other’s unclothed bodies in a pure way.

What does this mean? Is sexual desire 'un-pure'? Did Adam and Eve have no sexual desire before they ate of the tree?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Peg, posted 01-01-2009 8:50 AM Peg has responded

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jaywill
Member (Idle past 14 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 47 of 81 (492547)
01-01-2009 9:13 AM


Who told you ... ?
When Adam and his wife were confronted by God about thier disobedience, these questions were asked by God.

"And He [God] said, Who told you that you are naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I told you not to eat?" (Gen.3:11)

"Who told you ...?.

I have been thinking about this question. God certainly did not tell them. So who told them?

Did the tree tell them? Nothing is said about the tree being able to speak. The question was not WHAT told you? but WHO told you ...?

If it was the case that Eve told Adam then we have to ask WHO told Eve? Did they tell each other? Who told them that they were naked then so that they could tell each other?

Can anyone tell me WHO told them that they were naked?
Adam seem never to answer that specific question.

Whose the WHO?

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


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Peg
Member (Idle past 3002 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 48 of 81 (492549)
01-01-2009 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by jaywill
01-01-2009 9:13 AM


Re: Who told you ... ?
very good analysis jaywill

the scripture goes on to say

At that he said: “Who told you that you were naked? From the tree from which I commanded you not to eat have you eaten?

so this tree represented something very important...it represented Gods right to be the judge of what is good and bad. Previously, under Gods direction nakedness was not an issue, but now suddently it was an issue.

it seems that after they had partaken of the fruit, it immediately caused a change in their thinking and attitude. It made them hide themselves from God, and judging by Gods question to them

'From the tree from which I commanded you not to eat, have you eaten?

it was their independent actions and disobedience that caused the change.


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 Message 47 by jaywill, posted 01-01-2009 9:13 AM jaywill has not yet responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3002 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 49 of 81 (492553)
01-01-2009 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by cavediver
01-01-2009 8:57 AM


they certainly must have had sexual desire but it seems sex was not the focus of their relationship for they had not had sex previously. Actually genesis says that they had sex for the first time AFTER they left the garden of eden
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 50 of 81 (492563)
01-01-2009 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by jaywill
01-01-2009 9:13 AM


Re: Who told you ... ?
Hi jay,

Why are you having such a problem with this question? The answer should be simple.

jaywill writes:

Whose the WHO?

The same who that tells you when you do something wrong.

Eve did not know she was naked when she ate the fruit as her eyes were not opened until the man ate the fruit. When their eyes were opened then they knew evil.

The only being that convicts anyone of anything is the Holy Spirit.

The trigger was man willfully disobeying God. He chose to eat the fruit. He was not deceived by the serpent. The woman gave him the fruit and he chose to eat it knowing what it was.

I personally believe the man chose to eat the fruit and die with the woman as they were one. Genesis 2:24.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by jaywill, posted 01-01-2009 9:13 AM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
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jaywill
Member (Idle past 14 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 51 of 81 (492566)
01-01-2009 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by ICANT
01-01-2009 11:13 AM


Re: Who told you ... ?
The same who that tells you when you do something wrong.

I'll think about it.


Eve did not know she was naked when she ate the fruit as her eyes were not opened until the man ate the fruit. When their eyes were opened then they knew evil.

I don't know how you can be so sure about that. Why not each as soon as they ate had their eyes opened?

Insisting from the text that the opening of the eyes had to wait until both had eaten, is at best, speculative.


The only being that convicts anyone of anything is the Holy Spirit.

No ICANT. The Devil also accuses the conscience.

Now the Holy Spirit is God. God said "Who told you that you were naked?" So God is not the best choice, IMO in that passage. However I would not argue that God does of course convict of man's sin.

The Devil as the Accuser of the brethren is a possibility. He wants always to separate man from God and God from man. It is typical of the Devil to accuse -

"Hey Adam and Eve, did you know you guys are naked? Better run away from God. Quick, I know a couple of good trees you can hide behind."

Just musing here. I have no firm opinion on it yet.


The trigger was man willfully disobeying God. He chose to eat the fruit. He was not deceived by the serpent. The woman gave him the fruit and he chose to eat it knowing what it was.

I personally believe the man chose to eat the fruit and die with the woman as they were one. Genesis 2:24.

That does make for a great romantic love story, I must admit.

Probably though, Adam should have said "Sweetie, you're on your own this time."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by ICANT, posted 01-01-2009 11:13 AM ICANT has responded

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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 52 of 81 (492568)
01-01-2009 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by jaywill
01-01-2009 11:35 AM


Re: Who told you ... ?
Hi jay,

jaywill writes:

I don't know how you can be so sure about that. Why not each as soon as they ate had their eyes opened?

That is simple she would have been telling the man how she looked so good and beautiful. Just look at this magnificient body I have. :laugh:

But she would have known it was evil and would not have given to the man to eat.

jaywill writes:

No ICANT. The Devil also accuses the conscience.

We have a flesh body. It is evil and belongs to the devil because it was sold to him by the first man.

We have a spirit that the Holy Spirit speaks to us from.

We have a mind where the battle takes place.

The devil works on the mind and convinces people as eve to defy God and choose to do what they think is right.

The Holy Spirit then trys to convince the mind the devil is wrong and lying.

Man then has to choose who he will listen too. The devil or the Holy Spirit.

That is the choice the man made in the garden.

God had said don't do it. The devil that old serpent convinced the woman that God did not know what was best and when presented with the option of disobeying by eating the fruit or obeying by not eating the fruit. The man chose to disobey and eat the fruit.

jaywill writes:

That does make for a great romantic love story, I must admit.

Probably though, Adam should have said "Sweetie, you're on your own this time."

But then he would be in the garden alone with the animals and God.

There would be no you and I seting at a computer talking about why that man did what he did.

I am going to ramble a little here.

As I contemplate the situation I do not believe this man had a choice. I believe it was necessary for him to make the decision that he made. Just as it is necessary for the devil to do his job and he had no choice in the matter. When you look at the big picture it is all necessary for them to do what they did so you and I could have a choice.

If you remember I have stated on several occasions that I believe the man in Genesis 2:7 and the man in Genesis 1:27 are two different men at a different time.

The man in Genesis 2:7 was formed from the dust of the earth and God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and he became a living soul. The word translated soul here means living being and has nothing to do with spirit. Nowhere does it say this man was created in the image/likeness of God. This man was a special being as he could be in the presence of God. Moses face glowed after glimpsing the hinder parts of God. Yet this man could be in the presence of God.

The man in Genesis 1:27 was created in the image/likeness of God.
Body, Mind, and Spirit. This man has always had a choice.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by jaywill, posted 01-01-2009 11:35 AM jaywill has not yet responded

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Bailey
Member (Idle past 2443 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 53 of 81 (492574)
01-01-2009 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by jaywill
01-01-2009 11:35 AM


two became one
Thank you for the exchange.
Happy New Year !

jay writes:

I don't know how you can be so sure about that. Why not each as soon as they ate had their eyes opened?

The common scripture does not read that way naturally. As easy as 1, 2, 3, we are told ...

1 writes:

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate;

2 writes:

and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

3 writes:

THEN the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.

Granted, apocryphal Eden texts will better support the view you are suggesting.

I writes:

But she would have known it was evil and would not have given to the man to eat.

Knowing the difference between good and evil says little in regards to how one will decide which to employ. Reality will testify that knowing the difference, alone, does not necessarily cause one to choose the beneficial path; whether towards oneself or others.

That said, the present opinion is in agreement with the interpretaion that allows the couple to 'awaken' simultaneously.
The scripture seems to imply this plainly and the joining of the couple into One union appears to further substantiate.

The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

One Love


I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, I'm just a fool playing with ideas.
My only intention is to tickle your thinker. Trust nothing I say. Learn for yourself.
Think for yourself.

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary


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 Message 51 by jaywill, posted 01-01-2009 11:35 AM jaywill has not yet responded

  
Bailey
Member (Idle past 2443 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 54 of 81 (492575)
01-01-2009 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by ICANT
01-01-2009 12:20 PM


mercy trumps judgement
Thank you for the exchange

The man chose to disobey and eat the fruit.

The man chose to 'obey' and keep his wife. The man sacraficed his previous decision to keep his own life. In time, we are told ...

For the one who has shown no mercy will be judged without mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

It may seem cliche, but one might ask what would He do.

One Love


This message is a reply to:
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Bailey
Member (Idle past 2443 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 55 of 81 (492582)
01-01-2009 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by jaywill
01-01-2009 11:35 AM


A whole lotta Love
Thank you for the exchange.

I personally believe the man chose to eat the fruit and die with the woman as they were one. Genesis 2:24.

That does make for a great romantic love story, I must admit.

As well, it is rather accurate in keeping with a man that has been created in the likeness of the Father of Life. We were in Jeremiah recently where evidence to His nature resides.

Thus saith Jehovah: Let not the wise glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty glory in his might; let not the rich glory in his riches;
But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I Am the One which exercise lovingkindness, justice, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

We are encouraged to 'boast' if we know this to be Truth; the Father delights first in loving/kindness ...

Strongs writes:

2617. checed (kheh'-sed)
From chacad; kindness; by implication piety (towards God): rarely reproof, or (subject.) Beauty -- favour, good deed(-liness, -ness), kindly, (loving-)kindness, merciful (kindness), mercy, pity.

2616. chacad (khaw-sad')
A primitive root; properly, perhaps to bow in courtesy to an equal (the neck only (compare chanan)), i.e. To be kind; also (but rarely) to reprove -- shew self merciful.

A quick concordance delivered 176 occurences; thassalotta Love - lol

Probably though, Adam should have said "Sweetie, you're on your own this time."

lol - that is just wrong.

Again, the character of the Father would not have been accurately represented had Adam performed as you say he should have. We thanked the Father for Adam's sacrafice; it allows awareness of great Truth. We Love the Father for His Son's sacrafice; it allows everliving companionship and justice. Both sacrafices, in their individual way, allow mankind to enjoy the inner circle of Life. Simply put, Reality would not be fulfilled had either been prevented.

One Love


I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, I'm just a fool playing with ideas.
My only intention is to tickle your thinker. Trust nothing I say. Learn for yourself.
Think for yourself.

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by jaywill, posted 01-01-2009 11:35 AM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
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jaywill
Member (Idle past 14 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 56 of 81 (492602)
01-01-2009 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Bailey
01-01-2009 3:07 PM


Re: A whole lotta Love
Again, the character of the Father would not have been accurately represented had Adam performed as you say he should have. We thanked the Father for Adam's sacrafice; it allows awareness of great Truth. We Love the Father for His Son's sacrafice; it allows everliving companionship and justice. Both sacrafices, in their individual way, allow mankind to enjoy the inner circle of Life. Simply put, Reality would not be fulfilled had either been prevented.

Baily,

Before you get too attached to that interpretation you should realize that God was not happy with Adam sinning period.

Had Adam really expressed God by following his wife into rebellion, I think there should be some hint that it pleased God which it didn't.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


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Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 771 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 57 of 81 (492617)
01-01-2009 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by jaywill
01-01-2009 6:19 PM


Re: A whole lotta Love
Hi, Jaywill.

Perhaps this is a little off-topic, but I'm curious how you would respond to these questions:

If Adam and Eve had not eaten of the fruit, what would have happened? Would we all be living in the Garden of Eden right now? My church maintains that we would not have existed, because procreation was not possible until after the Fall (maybe they didn't even have reproductive parts to be ashamed of?---that's a weird thought).

If Adam had refused to follow Eve and get kicked out of the Garden, what would have become of them (and us)? Would God have had to create a new husband for Eve (or wife for Adam)?

In other words, could God's plan for us have been fulfilled if Adam and Eve had not been kicked out of the Garden?

If not, how could Adam's Transgression be anything but the fulfillment of God's plan?


I'm Bluejay.

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by jaywill, posted 01-01-2009 6:19 PM jaywill has not yet responded

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Peg
Member (Idle past 3002 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 58 of 81 (492684)
01-02-2009 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Blue Jay
01-01-2009 7:05 PM


Re: A whole lotta Love
i know you've asked for jaywill to respond, but i'd like to answer this one and compare my understanding with jaywills

Mantis writes:

If Adam and Eve had not eaten of the fruit, what would have happened? Would we all be living in the Garden of Eden right now? My church maintains that we would not have existed, because procreation was not possible until after the Fall (maybe they didn't even have reproductive parts to be ashamed of?---that's a weird thought).

If Adam had refused to follow Eve and get kicked out of the Garden, what would have become of them (and us)?

1. Procreation was always on the cards for Adam & Eve. the command God gave them was not only to abstain from eating of the tree but to
Gen 1:27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it

the only way to become many was by using their reproductive systems, so they must have had them and sex was a part of their ability to reproduce.

2. We can only speculate on what might have happened had Adam not followed his wife into disobedience. But there are a few facts we could consider to decipher a very possible outcome.

Eve was the first to eat from the fruit, but notice how God did not appear to her immediately to ask her what she had done. It was only when Adam had eaten from the fruit that God came to speak with Adam.

God knew that eve had been deceived by the serpent because the apostle spoke of this centuries later when he said
1Timothy2:12 'I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and came to be in transgression.

So lets say that Adam did not follow her into disobedience, God would have had no reason to punish him with the consequences of sin (death) So that just leaves us with the question of what might have happened to eve.

If she was decieved but repentant, God may have shown her mercy and forgiven her, allowing her to remain with Adam in the garden...or he may have ended her life immediately and provided Adam a new wife

One thing we do know for sure is that if neither of them had fallen from Gods favor, then they would still be alive today as the original parents to all of us... and quite a few billion more people... and the whole earth would be a garden of eden.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Blue Jay, posted 01-01-2009 7:05 PM Blue Jay has responded

Replies to this message:
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Bailey
Member (Idle past 2443 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 59 of 81 (492732)
01-02-2009 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Peg
01-02-2009 3:36 AM


sado masochistic religion seeking god - apply within
Thank you for the exchange Peg.

We can only speculate on what might have happened had Adam not followed his wife into disobedience. But there are a few facts we could consider to decipher a very possible outcome.

Speculating outside of the parameters of the text produces theology. Theology is basically what the serpent offered Eve; a clever work over of the Word of the Father. The present opinion values actual scripture more than it's predisposed counterpart. Is it better to listen to the Word of your Father who loves you, or is it better to listen to another?

Eve was the first to eat from the fruit, but notice how God did not appear to her immediately to ask her what she had done. It was only when Adam had eaten from the fruit that God came to speak with Adam.

Had they had not been married together, or if they 'awakened' separately, perhaps this point would maintain relevancy. The Father has united the two as one, and refers to them as 'one flesh'. Within the narrative, the Lovebirds 'awakening' occurs simultaneously; they are approached by the Father in the same way.

God knew that eve had been deceived by the serpent because the apostle spoke of this centuries later when he said
1Timothy2:12 'I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence.

Be a good christian and stop posting then - lol

Peg - could not resist; I Love ya & I'm totally kiddin'

So lets say that Adam did not follow her into disobedience, God would have had no reason to punish him with the consequences of sin (death) So that just leaves us with the question of what might have happened to eve.

The Father of Love does not punish the ones He Loves; the sooner this is established in reality, the sooner He will be exposed. The True guilty party is the serpent and it remains the only entity, besides 'the ground', to receive direct punishment within the Eden narrative. Below is evidence that Adam and Eve were not 'punished', as the Judges so often claim.

* Woman is authorized to cause the serpent to headbutt her feet (Gen 3:15).

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

---------------------

* The woman is again and still warned of discomfort she must experience (Gen 3:16). The pain cannot be 'greater' (to her), as she has no initial basis of comparison for child birth. Very early on the man was given dominion over creation, within which Eve must be reasonably included. Additionally, there is no precept, as with Adam and the serpent (ie. 'cause you did this, omma do dat ...), indicating this as anything other than a prophetic utterence. Prophecy is not punishment - lol

He said to the woman, "I will increase your pain and your labor when you give birth to children. Yet, you will long for your husband, and he will rule you."

---------------------

* A consequence seemingly intended for the man is deflected to the ground where the serpent crawls on his belly eating dust, while man continues to fruitfully multiply and subdue the recently thorned and thistled earth with his snazzy new leather pants (Gen 3:17). As if the Father did not do Adam a solid by deflecting any and all 'punishment', the leathers further protect him from the ground that absorbed the impact. In this way, he is much less inclined to snag his private bits out in the field.

Because the man listened to his wife and ate from the 'evil' tree, the Father deflects his punishment to the ground and gives him leather pants. Nice punishment - lol

Wish I could be 'punished' like that; I get whacked with a wooden spoon! If only they pay attention to scripture they may see a better way.

Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life

---------------------

* The Father declares the one who was deceived to become the mother of all the LIVING (Gen 3:20); not to be confused with the mother of the 'dead & evil & declining'. You were a bad girl Eve; how 'bouts I make you the mother of all the living as a punishment ...

Now the man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all the living.

---------------------

* The couple, and all of civilization, are safegaurded from any chance of a destructive person living longer than necessary (Gen 3:22,23). The Father arranges reality in such a way that adulterous murderers cannot live forever.

Then the LORD God said, "The man has become like one of us, since he knows good and evil. He must not reach out and take the fruit from the tree of life and eat. Then he would live forever."
So the LORD God sent the man out of the Garden of Eden to farm the ground from which the man had been formed.

---------------------

If she was decieved but repentant, God may have shown her mercy and forgiven her, allowing her to remain with Adam in the garden...or he may have ended her life immediately and provided Adam a new wife

lol - what scripture are you drawing from? Eve was deceived (Gen 3:7) and repentant (Gen 3:13)(Gen 3:21). The verses exposing the Father's lovingkindness justice have been presented above for all to admire. Eve is first shown mercy (Gen 3:13-15,17-19), then prophecied over (Gen 3:16), blessed (Gen 3:20), forgiven & covered (Gen 3:21), and allowed to remain with her husband (Gen 4:1). This is how the Father of Life rolls; nobody can stop Him. Not the 'devil' or 'christians' can change His tune.

One thing we do know for sure is that if neither of them had fallen from Gods favor, then ...

... there would be no value to associate to the Son of the Father of Life. Does this somehow seem like a pleasing alternative to reality?

Do not despise what the Father has revealed, nor quench the Spirit of Love. Instead, test & examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.

Judgement closes our eyes to evidence; the Father as asked us to judge not according to appearance, but establish righteous judgment. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of the Father. He allows and encourages us to be thankful for All things; in this way, our eyes become opened.

Do you see?

One Love


I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, I'm just a fool playing with ideas.
My only intention is to tickle your thinker. Trust nothing I say. Learn for yourself.
Think for yourself.

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Peg, posted 01-02-2009 3:36 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
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Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 771 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 60 of 81 (492738)
01-02-2009 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Peg
01-02-2009 3:36 AM


Re: A whole lotta Love
Hi, Peg.

Peg writes:

i know you've asked for jaywill to respond, but i'd like to answer this one and compare my understanding with jaywills

It's an open forum: anyone's welcome. :)

-----

Peg writes:

1. Procreation was always on the cards for Adam & Eve. the command God gave them was not only to abstain from eating of the tree but to ... “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it

the only way to become many was by using their reproductive systems, so they must have had them and sex was a part of their ability to reproduce.

I don't agree that this points to their ability to reproduce right away. They are (as Taz likes to say) children, after all. The Mormon argument goes like this:

  • Mortality (and reproduction) was necessary for God's plan to be fulfilled
  • Mortality (and reproduction) could only come about by disobedience
  • Therefore, in order for God's plan to be fulfilled, somebody had to disobey God
  • Therefore, God gave Adam and Eve contradicting laws ("reproduce and "don't eat from the tree") so that they would have to break one

    Kind of sucks, I know, but it kind of makes sense in a roundabout sort of way. We Mormons are usually very careful to admit that we don't know for certain, though.

    But, it also explains why 1 Timothy (the scripture you quoted) says that Adam wasn't deceived: he knew exactly what he was doing, and he did it on purpose, because God's plan required it of him. In the Book of Mormon, we have:

    quote:
    "Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy"

    -2 Nephi 2:25


    I've never actually heard it claimed that Adam and Eve didn't have gonads in the Garden, but I have heard it claimed that their gonads were non-functional, like a pre-pubescent child's. So, Adam and Eve were unable to reproduce until after the Fall.

    So, basically, God set Eve up, and the serpent informed her of this, and she gave in to his temptation. And, after Eve took of the fruit, Adam knew he had to as well.

    -----

    Peg writes:

    One thing we do know for sure is that if neither of them had fallen from Gods favor, then they would still be alive today as the original parents to all of us... and quite a few billion more people... and the whole earth would be a garden of eden.

    I contend that you do not know this at all.


    I'm Bluejay.

    Darwin loves you.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 58 by Peg, posted 01-02-2009 3:36 AM Peg has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 61 by ICANT, posted 01-02-2009 2:12 PM Blue Jay has responded
     Message 65 by Peg, posted 01-03-2009 2:25 AM Blue Jay has not yet responded

      
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