Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
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Message 84 of 316 (503024)
03-15-2009 1:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 78 by kbertsche
03-14-2009 7:01 PM
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Re: Kaiser et al
It seems that if you are going to show evidence for the claim that "abridgement is the general rule in biblical genealogies", you'd probably be wise to show this in numerous places, and the focus should probably be on the OT, given what we are looking at here. But you say that Kaiser et al cite chapter 1 of Matthew as their evidence? Don't get me wrong, its an interesting point, but can we make any decent conclusions about the intent of the authors in Genesis based on the style of the authors of Matthew?
Kaiser et al also note that the numbers for Terah don't add up correctly, indicating that we should avoid adding up these genealogical figures. (From Gen 11:26-32 it would seem that Abraham was 135 years old when Terah died, but according to Gen 12:4 Abraham left Haran at age 75 and according to Acts 7:4 Terah had already died at this time. Kaiser et al conclude that Gen 11 must be giving the Terah's age when he fathered his first child, but Abraham must have been a later child.) Likewise, I'm not sure appealing to the Acts of the Apostles is a good way to interpret the events of Genesis. Where did 'Luke' get this information about Terah from exactly and why should we consider it a better source than Genesis?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by kbertsche, posted 03-14-2009 7:01 PM | | kbertsche has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 85 by kbertsche, posted 03-15-2009 4:22 PM | | Modulous has not replied |
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Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
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Message 255 of 316 (508492)
05-14-2009 9:31 AM
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Reply to: Message 254 by Percy
05-14-2009 9:11 AM
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ahem, quality assurance officer calls again
| Hebrew Title | First Few Lines | Hebrew title in English |
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| Bereshit | In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters. | In the beginning | | Shemot | These are the names of the sons of Israel who came to Egypt with Jacob, each with his household: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, Is'sachar, Zeb'ulun, and Benjamin, Dan and Naph'tali, Gad and Asher. | The names | | Vayikra | The LORD called Moses, and spoke to him from the tent of meeting, saying, "Speak to the people of Israel, and say to them, When any man of you brings an offering to the LORD, you shall bring your offering of cattle from the herd or from the flock. | And He called | | bmidbar (Sinai) | The LORD spoke to Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tent of meeting, on the first day of the second month, in the second year after they had come out of the land of Egypt, saying, "Take a census of all the congregation of the people of Israel, by families, by fathers' houses, according to the number of names, every male, head by head; | In the wilderness (of Sinai) | | Devarim | These are the words that Moses spoke to all Israel beyond the Jordan in the wilderness, in the Arabah over against Suph, between Paran and Tophel, Laban, Haze'roth, and Di'-zahab. | the words | | Yehoshua | After the death of Moses the servant of the LORD, the LORD said to Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, "Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, you and all this people, into the land which I am giving to them, to the people of Israel. | Joshua | | Shoftim | After the death of Joshua the people of Israel inquired of the LORD,of "Who shall go up first for us against the Canaanites, to fight against them?" The LORD said, "Judah shall go up; behold, I have given the land into his hand." | Judge |
You were using the Anglicized/Latinized names from the Greek titles, not the original 'titles'. And other works follow the pattern, such as Enuma Elish. Ancient works rarely, if ever, carried titles in the way that we think of them. Most of the names were given to the works later, and the tendency is to refer to them by the first significant noun or action in the work.
See Message 123 for my response to Percy's follow-up question. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 254 by Percy, posted 05-14-2009 9:11 AM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 256 by Percy, posted 05-14-2009 9:45 AM | | Modulous has not replied |
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Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
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Message 268 of 316 (508639)
05-15-2009 9:17 AM
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Reply to: Message 262 by Peg
05-15-2009 8:07 AM
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Heavens and the earth
As your link shows... a literal reading of moses words might be "in-beginning created God."
It was the translators who made it to read
"In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth" in order for us to get an idea of the subject...unfortunately we read it as one continuing account and so the earth and universe appear to be created together as Rrhain believes. I think there might be some confusion over the translation here, the translators didn't translate "in-beginning created God." to "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth". The translators took something like "at first created the divine the sky and the ground." and made it into the phrase we now see. Anyway, as per the OP, I think this line of reasoning is out of bounds (it got beaten to death elsewhere) so essentially you agree with Rrhain.
quote:
I simply want to know if there is a break in this timeline and if so, where it is.
I assume that you are arguing that the break in the Biblical timeline is somewhere before God created humans?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 262 by Peg, posted 05-15-2009 8:07 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 272 by Peg, posted 05-15-2009 11:17 PM | | Modulous has not replied |
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