Did Jesus lie ?

That was provided. My point with that was, that the gospel has not yet been preached to all nations yet. Signifying that the end of the age and this generation has not yet come. Same thing here. It was to signify the end of the age, and show that John knew what was meant by the word generation. Bingo, so if all was not filled, then the word generation means something else, unless Jesus was wrong, and lying. I know what the word generation can typically mean, I have never argued against that. I am showing you that there are alternate definitions, such as the television generation, but again you choose to ignore that, and failed to explain what that means. Strange, my kids watch TV, not the internet.
As long as there are TV's, we are part of the TV generation.Just like we are part of a generation that uses fire. That has lasted how long?Many different adjectives, and promouns can help you define exactly what kind of generation you are speaking of.How does a television generation fit the description of a period of time between birht of a child, and then the child growing up and giving birth, to start another generation of......family. So in that case you would describe the word generation by saying it is a generation of family, or family generation.We are part of a generation that drives automobiles. How long will that last?
That uses rails to ride trains,
that flies airplanes,
that goes into space.If I said we are the space generation, 1000 years from now, if we were still in space, we would still be part of that generation.The generation that Jesus was speaking of, is the one that would see all those things come to pass. Well, all things haven't passed, so we must still be in that generation. Could it be any simpler?I mean why bother telling them all that was going to happen, and then send tham out to tell everyone else, if their own generation of people was not going to pass? He must have meant something else. It is plainly obvious to me. There is no way in hell I am going to retract that statement, and as we get further into it, I am getting more convinced that I am right, and you are wrong. I think you are the one who needs to retract. I proved plenty, but you have choose to ignore it, like I said you would(does that make me a prophet?lol). The lexicon clearly states that the word genea can mean race. The Jewish race is still around, so I don't see a problem with the word genea meaning a period of time longer than 30 years. You have failed to even remotely acknowledge it, and that is why the BS meter is pegged to the right. It's almost as if you have an agenda.Another thing, everyone around here keeps speaking for the author. The author is dead, and can not stick up for himself, or Jesus, and the writing has been translated from a language that is not fully understood. How can any of this arguement be an absolute?

I hope this is not too OT, but didn't Paul also write like he was living in the last generation?

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1 Corinthians 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none

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...and this is the crux of your argument! The words don't fit your pre-conceptions of Jesus as a faultless man (didn't lie, didn't make mistakes, didn't piss/shit/eat/scratched his balls). No problem, we'll just change the words so that they fit!So now the word 'generation' means 'unspecified time period that will end when I want it to'. the 'fire generation' went out of vogue about 10000 years ago, sorry to break it to you. I like the way you define your own reality! So, in your world we are also part of the 'electricity generation', right?Hey, I know : Jesus and us we're all part of the 'tree generation', I mean trees were around back then weren't they?Does that also mean that Shakespeare was part of the X-generation ? He was using X's in his writings and we're still using them now (here's one: X) , so Shakespeare and us are all part of the X-generation!!Oh, oh I've got a better one: Neandhertals and us we're all part of the 'cave generation'. They used to live in caves and we now use caves for...errr.. caving I suppose, so there you have it !!but my biggest question remains: If Jesus used a donkey to enter Jerusalem and donkeys still persist to this very day, does that mean we're all part of the 'Donkey Generation' ?Could it be this is what Jesus was referring to when he said "This generation shall not pass.." ?But what's going to happen when donkeys become extinct (this generation has passed) and Jesus's prophesies still haven't been fulfilled ?I think we may have to re-define the word "Donkeys" to mean "exotic cheese with just a hint of nutmeg".Then we'll be covered. Sorted!

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

nevermind.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Two questions.
Why? since we still use fire.And when did it start? If you use the noun TV to describe the noun generation, then yes. If you use the word tree to describe generation, then yes. No because the letter X in X-generation is an abbreviation for the word extreme. It represents what the media defines as extreme sports.
IT is a poser generation, but there are a few people who are actually more extreme than the previous generation.[q]sOh, oh I've got a better one: Neandhertals and us we're all part of the 'cave generation'. They used to live in caves and we now use caves for...errr.. caving I suppose, so there you have it !![/qs]Only if you use the word cave to describe a generation of people. If you use the word neandhertals and cave people, then you are confusing two different things. Only if you use the word Donkey to define the word generation. It's basic English.
What about today's oak tree's? How long have they been around for? Aren't they a generation of trees, and there were predecessor's to the oak tree, and there will be a future genration of oak trees?
How long have they been around.You are still avoiding the questions I really want answered, and I am not going back to tell them to you again. No. The word to describe what kind of generation Jesus was refering to is the word "this" The word "this" has many meanings, and it would have been better spoken to refer to it as "your generation" if the definition of the word genea is the one you are presenting.Please, take notice, you only have one definition of the word genea, when it can clearly mean just about anything. One track mind. Nothing because he didn't say the donkey generation, He said "this generation". And before that He explained all the things that must pass before "this generation " must come to an end. So we must still be living in "this generation" or Jesus was a liar. hardly. I think you have the thickest head yet.The fact that you are resorting to rhetoric, just shows how you are not sorting anything out.Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

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What about when he refers to race?

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How does the author refer to race?The verse you are talking about: The word generation does not refer to race in the sense that we can replace the word "generation" with "race."IOW, we can't write the sentence: I tell you the truth, this race will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.That is what we are trying to tell you.Now if this sentence is spoken to an audience of Jews (race), then it is saying that this generation of this race of people will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. IOW, those now living would not all pass away until all these things have happened.See the difference?So whether you think Jesus is speaking to a group of Jews, a mixed group, or just his disciples; the problem is the same. That generation has passed away quite awhile ago, did all those things happen? Has Jesus already gathered his elect from the four winds, etc.?

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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I hope this is not too OT, but didn't Paul also write like he was living in the last generation?

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1 Corinthians 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none

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I don't think it will be off topic if tied back to the topic.IMO, Paul felt time was short as you showed. Paul came after Jesus, but was gone before the synoptics were written. I think at the time Mark was written there was still the feeling that the end was at hand.Now since Matthew and Luke were later writings, probably after the disaster of 70ce; the authors' intention may have been to present their version of the bio and not neccessarily adding commentary or correction.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

no.I don't see how you make the leap, from describing a generation of people, such as the Jewish race, to only those living, at the time the words were spoken. I am not saying it couldn't mean that, I am just saying that it doesn't have to mean that.Do you think that the disciples thought they were going to be the last generation?

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I don't see how you make the leap, from describing a generation of people, such as the Jewish race, to only those living, at the time the words were spoken. I am not saying it couldn't mean that, I am just saying that it doesn't have to mean that.

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Yes it does.Even the definition for generation you provided in Message 279 agrees with me and does not support your position of generation meaning something over 100 years for humans. From Message 50
That is not what the first definition says. Mothers and daughters represent two generations. I don't know any humans who live over 100 years.From Message 279
Notice the word contemporaneous in your fourth definition? Now television may last over 100 years but it may not be a common cultural or social characteristic and attitude of the next generation.Now this excerpt from "The Popular and Critical Bible Encyclopaedia and Scriptural Dictionary", 1902. You haven't come up with any definitions or usage that supports the word generation can mean something lasting 2000 years or longer when referring to humans.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

No comments needed so far. We have entered......the Twilight Zone. you're right, we're all part of the 'oak generation'. As long as oaks shall be around. yes, yes, it can clearly mean just about anything. Just like the word 'disciple' can mean 'vanilla ice-cream'. And the word 'faith' can mean 'the unbearable lightness of being'. Hey, who needs the English (or any other) language. We have our own, right !? it's not called rhetoric, it's called sarcasm. It's what happens when all meaningful coversation has gone out of the window (along with the semantics of the English language) and the forum rules don't allow you to question your opponent's mental faculties.

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

Why did you leave the the rest of the definition?Even in biology when one species goes to another, it can be refered to a generation of species.This is the full definition: Look at the second to last definition, #6. I was reading somewhere, that the aramaic word used for the word genea, may have not always been interpreted correctly.It seems that the Christians who accept that He was just speaking to those present, feel that the prophcies of that chaptor have come to pass.I feel like even though those words may, or may have not been written for us, somehow they still apply. Perhaps Jesus knew this, and is part of the beauty of the bible.What I would like to do is find out if you think Jesus was just speaking to that audience, and not everyone who was going ot read the bible, then why isn't Jesus a liar then? How could He be wrong? Is there room for Jesus to be wrong, and not be a liar? We should start another topic where you guys can explain this.Also we should not be discussing the contemporary meaning of the word generation, or even the translated meaning of the word definition, and only the ancient greek meaning of the word, or the aramaic meaning of the word.You also did not answer my question.

Do you know what a modifier is?
A verb?
A pronoun? Please answer the questions. I am amazed how you totally avoid the truth.

Rule #10 of the Forum - Always treat other members with respect. Argue the position, not the person. Avoid abusive, harassing and invasive behavior. Avoid needling, hectoring and goading tactics. We were talking about whether Christ lied or not. In your frustration to establish your argument you seemed to have lashed out and expanded your critque to matters of the humanity of Jesus, which was not in question. And your tone in doing so seems purposely tailored to be vile and offensive.I think our exchange is concluded at this juncture.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

whereas Riverrat's difficulty seems to be in understanding words, yours is obviously in reading them. I didn't criticise or question Jesus's humanity. I simply pointed out that Riverrat's pre-conception of Jesus as a perfect man leads him to change the meaning of words so that they fit his ideas!you don't have to apologise right now, you can apologise later.

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."