Death before the 'Fall'?

evidently not since he didn't take god too seriously.i think the best reading is that man was created mortal, but provided a means to immortality: the tree of life. in a sense, man did lose his immortality, but it was not a change in state or physical law, just removal of facility.

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אָרַח

brian, i hope you realize that i wasn't being totally serious with that comment. evidently, adam DOES take him seriously, enough that his wife is afraid to go near it until the snake convices her.adam does seem to have some idea what death is, though never having experienced it around him. he's just stupid (in my educated opinion).

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אָרַח

this just applies to people:

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Gen 9:1-3

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And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth [upon] the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

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nothing about what animals ate. of course, abel was a shepherd well before this:

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Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

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so he must have killed and eviscerated an animal or two for god, just never for himself. (what was he keeping a flock for anyways? company?)

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אָרַח

oh, ruin a perfectly good sarcastic comment, will ya? of course, they wore "skins" not "wool." you mean they were just vegetarians, not full vegans? what about chicken? fish? lobster? oh, wait, that's out.

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אָרַח

couldn't god have created them out of thin air like everything else?

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אָרַח

quote:

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Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

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Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

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i'm sorry, i don't see "very good" in these verses. it is in 31, but, consider the following: after every instance of creation in chapter one, god calls his creation "good." 4,10,12,18,21,25. there are three things which god neglects to call good: darkness, heaven, and mankind. why?also, consider that the first thing god describes as "not good" has to do with man:

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Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

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so evidently, god has NOT made a perfect creation, and needs to fix it. god tries making adam some animals, but that doesn't work.consider also god's experience with man. every single man he has created has sinned, except maybe enoch. adam, eve, cain... where's the CHANGE in man's nature? this is clearly a bit of mental gymnastics fall-ists have to go through, because here's the bit that REALLY doesn't make any sense.if it wasn't in man's nature to sin, why did he? remember, he had to sin BEFORE the fall. and if not knowing any better is an excuse, why is it sin? either god made man capable of disobedience, or he did not. but that is not something that can change.

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right, but everything is "very good" AFTER god makes woman. the man in genesis 2 has no woman. and evidently "very good" cannot mean immortal unless man's fall also affects animals too -- which are all "very good" according to god.

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i know that, and you know that. but jaywill doesn't believe that. which makes it a good argument.

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i assume that's rhetorical, but the obvious answer is: yes!most christians meet jesus first as an unbeliever.

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