Yes, I believe GOD exists; I do not know that GOD exists.
... you don't believe in God (ie., you don't have faith in god, only his existence).
What does it even mean to believe in GOD? I think it is irrational to starve myself to death while waiting for some undetectable entity to bring me some food. Despite how irrational my beliefs about GOD already are, I don't need to make them more so!
But if you believe God exists in reality, and you trust that he will look after you in reality...
I believe GOD exists, just like I believe the farmers who grow my food exist. I do not 'trust that he will look after' me, though; I don't count on others, even if I depend on them.
That GOD or the farmers have what it takes to provide for me or that my trust may be put fully into them for that provision is no reason to stop going to work each day to earn money to live. I don't expect the farmers to hand me their crops; I don't expect GOD to hand me HERS.
It is evidence of your lack of faith.
It depends on what you mean by 'faith'. Hoping for someone else to look after you just because they can is, in my book, a pretty piss-poor way to understand faith. It's common in many fundamentalist circles; but ultimately it's crap.
What does it even mean to believe in GOD? I think it is irrational to starve myself to death while waiting for some undetectable entity to bring me some food.
I was suggesting that you shouldn't worry about eating tomorrow, only about eating today, if you trust that God will provide for you as per Matthew 6.
I believe GOD exists, just like I believe the farmers who grow my food exist. I do not 'trust that he will look after' me, though
Indeed, that kind of faith is rare, which is what I said. It's not a personal slight against you that you don't make gigantic unwarranted leaps of faith.
That GOD or the farmers have what it takes to provide for me or that my trust may be put fully into them for that provision is no reason to stop going to work each day to earn money to live.
Of course not. But if you trust God will provide for you, if you have faith that he will, then you need not worry about saving money.
It depends on what you mean by 'faith'. Hoping for someone else to look after you just because they can is, in my book, a pretty piss-poor way to understand faith.
Indeed. But I was suggesting faith to mean 'trusting God will do what he says' not 'hope that God will exercise his capabilities'. Matthew 6 asks for a huge amount of faith, a foolish amount of faith in my opinion. I was just drawing the distinction between actually trusting someone (having faith) and merely believing they exist.
That's nice Jon, but in a thread about Christ in which I responded to a Christian who lamented falling short of Christ's standards by pointing out that few people meet the standards of faith set out in the Gospel of Matthew, maybe I was talking about the God of the Bible when I said
quote:I wouldn't worry about it too much though, many people profess to have a deep faith in God who actually don't trust him at all.
which caused you to reply
quote:Well, I believe in GOD
Now we have established that what I was talking about was irrelevant to you, shall I then disregard the entire discussion that followed?
Christ could be said to be a commune-ist, who appealed to the ultimate central authority. He was apparently against saving, pensions etc etc in some capacity, not against a decentralised economy - but probably against mega-corps. I would suggest he was proposed a needs based attitude to money, similar to the communist idea of 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his need', but that's probably where any similarities end.
As a conservative American I. D./Creationist type, how do you think Dr. Craig manages to lie to himself about the implications of verses like these?
From the O.P., again:
quote: Acts 2: 42, 44, and 45:
42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and in fellowship ... 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things in common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Matthew 19:16-24 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why do you ask me about what is good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.