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Author | Topic: The first 3 chapters of Genesis | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
I'm interested in interpretation generally and in what appear to me the bizarre interpretations I've been reading lately about what actually happens in this story.
Jar and others in another thread claim that the traditional interpretation--that God punishes Adam and Eve for eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (we can shorten this to KGE) is incorrect. They say that Adam and Eve are being sent away from Eden so that they won't eat from the Tree of Life, not because they did eat from the KGE, and this being sent away does not consititute punishment. The problem with this interpretation is that it ignores the passage before the Tree of life is mentioned by God:
And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where [art] thou? Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I [was] naked; and I hid myself. Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou [wast] naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest [to be] with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What [is] this [that] thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return. At this moment, the punishment for eating from KGE has been declared. It will consist of Eve having her "sorrows multiplied"; it consists of her giving birth in great pain; of her being ruled by her husband. Adam's punishment consists of his having to "eat of the ground" which is or will soon be cursed; this ground will be infested by thorns and thistles (whereas before it was not); he will sweat to get this inferior food; and he will die. Apart from whether they remain in Eden or not, the punishment has been declared. The tone of God moreover is that of anger. Any unbiased reader can see this plainly. This is a Bible Study topic, my first one. Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Might it be that you get to pick the interpretation you like better? Not if you want to be reasonable.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
The problem here is that you're approching Genesis as if it was a historical incident. No, I'm approaching it as a work of literature, a story. What are the facts of the story?
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Did the authors intend it as history or as an explanation? I don't know and nobody knows. We are trying to figure out what happens in the story. It does not matter if it fits in with somebody's idea of God or if it fits in with what is just or anything else.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
And where exactly did I say that they were not punished? So they were punished? What for?
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
If it's an explanation, then nothing "happened" in the story. If Adam and Eve were not real people, then they could not have been "punished". We are talking about a story. In the story, they can be punished. It's like asking, did Claudius poison Hamlet's father? Yes, he did. Did Hamlet kill Polonius? Yes, he did. Quite definite answers, you see.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Sorry robin but your reply is unrelated to the question I asked. Why were they punished, Jar?
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
What does the "punishment" really mean? We are not talking about meaning. We are talking about the facts of the story.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
How can we discuss interpretation unless we discuss meaning? There are different levels of interpretation. This thread is only concerned with the facts of the story, not the philosophical implications.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
I agree with your interpretation That's a first.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Then your criticism of the "bizarre interpretations" seems out of line, since those interpretations are based on meaning Yeah, the problem is that they are based on meaning instead of looking at what the story actually relates. People come to the story with preconceived ideas as to its meaning and they twist it around to make it seem like the facts of the story are different from what they are.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
The facts of the story include: Women have pain in childbirth.People work hard for a living. People don't like snakes. None of those facts indicate a change in circumstances It doesn't indicate a change? That was the whole point, that life was changed. That was the punishment.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
First, before eating from the Tree of Knowledge Adam & Eve, like beasts, were incapable of either sin or morality Then why were they punished?
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
That's just your preconceived notion. No, it's not. Anybody can see that God is changing things because of their behavior. What, you think he's saying, "Why did you do this?" "Well, I was beguiled." "Okay, you will give birth as normally, etc."
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Eve had had no children. There can not be a "change" before the first child. What part of that do you not understand? So God says, "Well, Eve, you would have delivered your baby in pain, and you will still deliver your baby in pain." Is that it?
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